wheres the line drawn for baiting deer??

moosehunter3-0 · #1 08-19-2009

buck bomb, scent sticks, buck urine, doe estress, mock scrapes, you get the picture.
considered baiting? vote online tonight

lynx · #2 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosehunter3-0

buck bomb, scent sticks, buck urine, doe estress, mock scrapes, you get the picture.
considered baiting? vote online tonight

Yes it is I think but its legal lol.

huntinstuff · #3 08-20-2009

Lures, not bait

jaylow? · #4 08-20-2009

i find it to be a grey area. on one hand im not a big fan of baiting big game with food....minus bears, but i dont really find the attractants to be a big deal. i think im fairly conflicted with this

....but really, whats it matter in the long run. if the province puts out so many tags, then what the hell does it matter how you take that tag?

bingo1010 · #5 08-20-2009

you do make a good point jay, what is the difference between baiting bears and deer? i struggle with that one myself.

TBark · #6 08-20-2009

wheres the line drawn for baiting deer??

AB / Sask boarder LOL.

TBark

#7 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBark

wheres the line drawn for baiting deer??

AB / Sask boarder LOL.

TBark

x2 Right on the money

Grizzly Adams · #8 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Lures, not bait

Reminds me of Clinton's famous quote, I did not have sex with that woman.

Grizz

lynx · #9 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBark

wheres the line drawn for baiting deer??

AB / Sask boarder LOL.

TBark

Nope its

Sk/AB/BC

NFTrapper · #10 08-20-2009

What does everyone think of the product "Grim's Monster Mix"

http://www.thehuntingchronicles.com/sponsors.html#

Bait or Lure? I don't even thin the Wildlife Cop's can even know.

Just putting it out there.

lynx · #11 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFTrapper

What does everyone think of the product "Grim's Monster Mix"

http://www.thehuntingchronicles.com/sponsors.html#

Bait or Lure? I don't even thin the Wildlife Cop's can even know.

Just putting it out there.

It has a lot of the stuff you can find in salt blocks. That is baiting to me.

mtylerb · #12 08-20-2009

From: http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlig...00-c-w-10.html

Quote:

Item 2
Items prohibited for hunting big game

1 Ammunition of less than .23 calibre.

2 Ammunition that contains non‑expanding bullets.

3 An autoloading firearm that has a capacity of more than 5 cartridges in the magazine.

4 A shotgun having a gauge of .410 or less.

5 Any bait consisting of a food attractant, including a mineral and any representation of a food attractant.

6 Any arrow other than an arrow that has a tip that bears a head that

(a) is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object, and

(b) is either

(i) a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or

(ii) a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

6.1 Any cross-bow that requires less than 100 pounds of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position.

7 Any bow other than

(a) a cross-bow that requires 100 pounds or more of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position, or

(b) a bow that

(i) is held, drawn and released by muscular power, and

(ii) requires a pull of at least 40 pounds to draw an arrow 28 inches in length to its head.

8 A muzzle‑loading firearm of less than .44 calibre.

9 Any trap that could be used to hunt big game.

It says right in the regs, any food attractant. Estrus isn't a food, or so I would hope. Salt is a mineral. I think it's laid out pretty clear. So anything the animal would eat or any replications of something the animal would eat is prohibited.

moosehunter3-0 · #13 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtylerb

From: http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlig...00-c-w-10.html

It says right in the regs, any food attractant. Estrus isn't a food, or so I would hope. Salt is a mineral. I think it's laid out pretty clear. So anything the animal would eat or any replications of something the animal would eat is prohibited.

that makes sense,so seeing bear scents resemble food they qualify as bait as well.

NFTrapper · #14 08-20-2009

So, say if I have an attractant out in the bush, and have a tree stand near, and was to shot an animal on its way to the attractant (not at it, but heading in that general direction), is that still considered baiting?

Sorry for the questions, but this baiting argument has me confused. So is shooting elk on a cut field that has bails left on it, would that be considered baiting... where do you draw the line?

lynx · #15 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFTrapper

So, say if I have an attractant out in the bush, and have a tree stand near, and was to shot an animal on its way to the attractant (not at it, but heading in that general direction), is that still considered baiting?

Sorry for the questions, but this baiting argument has me confused. So is shooting elk on a cut field that has bails left on it, would that be considered baiting... where do you draw the line?

I would say NO because you are not at the attractant. Its no different than a animal heading to a farmers bin for loose grain on the ground.

Many farmers some years have to pile their grain in the field because the bins are full or whatever. many deer head to that pile. That is not baiting because he couldn't move the grain. The pile is on his field and your on the neighbors where the deer bed down????

Bad weather , machine break downs and crop left out, not harvested, is that baiting??? So many gray areas.

Bales and elk feeding on them is not baiting to me.

They should just allow it like Sask and BC and problem solved, then if you want to bait do so and if not don't. Leave it up the the hunter. my thoughts

75ft Arborist · #16 08-20-2009

So you can use bait as long as you are not hunting

What if i went back the next day and there was still some bait left over and im hunting this time. Hmmm sounds like another grey area!

crazyfish · #17 08-20-2009

A friend has a mineral lick on his quarter, (great for trail cam pics ) don't add anything after the spring, but they still come, is that bad ?

75ft Arborist · #18 08-20-2009

Unless they redo the regs stating that you cant hunt food plots, or areas where bait has been previously set then there is a way to get around it. Even then what if you stumbled onto an area that had been baited by someone else. Well they should just make it legal so as not to confuse anyone

whitetail Junkie · #19 08-20-2009

I could'nt be bothered useing bait.I think that you should'nt be allowed to bait deer or bears or anything.I know alot of people do it,espicially in saskatchewan where baiting deer is legal and I'm happy that your not allowed to bait deer in alberta.Hunting deer over bait is a good way to KILL an animal,but not a great way to hunt an animal!

catnthehat · #20 08-20-2009

It's pretty simple, and the only grey areas are ones that people suppose are just that, but there is none to my way of thinking, nor the law's.
Scent is legal, bait ( as in stuff they eat) is not.
As far as bears go, you can bait them, any comparison to deer is not valid to Alberta law as it is written, they are two different animals.
Cat

mtylerb · #21 08-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75ft Arborist

So you can use bait as long as you are not hunting

What if i went back the next day and there was still some bait left over and im hunting this time. Hmmm sounds like another grey area!

The Act just refers to it in the following manner:

Quote:

Hunting of Particular Kinds of Animals

Prohibited equipment and other items

40(1) A person shall not set out, use or have in the person’s possession for the purpose of hunting big game anything described in Item 2 of the Schedule.

(2) A person shall not have in the person’s possession while hunting big game anything described in the Schedule that is prescribed.

Once I leave the house, I'd class myself as "hunting". If I'm just scouting, there aren't any guns near me and no way for me to hunt. Once I leave for a trip to actually hunt, though, I'll leave the bait at home.

albertadave · #22 08-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75ft Arborist

So you can use bait as long as you are not hunting

What if i went back the next day and there was still some bait left over and im hunting this time. Hmmm sounds like another grey area!

Nothing grey about that statement. 100% baiting, 100% illegal.

duffy4 · #23 08-21-2009

Most often with a "regulation" there is the factor of "intent".

You probably know what your "intent" is. The Enforcement officer has his idea of what your "intent" was and the judge can make his ruling based on what he desides your "intent" was.

I sit in a ground blind one day and eat my lunch and throw an apple core away. Next morning a deer walks out in front of me and stops to eat the apple core. Was I baiting?

I sit in a ground blind one day and before I leave I dump a dozen apples on the ground in front of my stand. Next day I shoot a deer as it stops to eat the apples. Was I baiting?

There was no intent to bait in the first case but there was in the second.

If a land owner says to his buddies "I think I will leave a round of alfalfa uncut along the north 40 so I can kill a big buck there this fall. He has intent.

If his tractor breaks down and he cannot finish cutting his field, he can hunt there with no intent of baiting.

mtylerb · #24 08-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffy4

Most often with a "regulation" there is the factor of "intent".

...

+1, the court is going to look for "mens rea" which is Latin for guilty mind. That is where the difference is in the law:

Quote:

... for the purpose of hunting ...

Either your purpose is to go out and bait that deer, or it is to go out and hunt that deer. Only you really know what your purpose is, but it doesn't take much to build sufficient evidence to make it look like you had a guilty mind.

kayaker · #25 08-21-2009

'Food or representation of food' = bait, simple.

Therefore sexual attractants are not bait, something that smells like food is a bait.

You could argue that a squeal call represents a food animal, buts its not a phyiscal or mineral representation.

huntin · #26 08-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffy4

If a land owner says to his buddies "I think I will leave a round of alfalfa uncut along the north 40 so I can kill a big buck there this fall. He has intent.

If his tractor breaks down and he cannot finish cutting his field, he can hunt there with no intent of baiting.

it is not illegal to plant a food plot or leave a strip of hay / grain in the field no matter what your intent is next year i plan on having at least 40acers of oats/ peas left for the deer, moose, bears, whatever wants it and i will probaly shoot a big buck off it and then so will my wife but then the deer have lots of healthy food for the winter after hunting season and then i can find their sheds in my field my intent is to bring the deer in and keep them there. not baiting because it was planted not placed

75ft Arborist · #27 08-21-2009

Hmmm well i have placed corn at a tree camera to see what type of big game is in the area. As i am not hunting that is legal. But come hunting season i will be going back to that area with the intent on killing big game. There is still some corn left after 2 weeks, (small niblets). Since i am not putting anymore down as i have moved my camera, how far will the law go to prosecute me for baiting? There will clearly be over a month since bait has been placed in that area!

75ft Arborist · #28 08-21-2009

This guy loves the corn, but im not after bear

duffy4 · #29 08-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntin

it is not illegal to plant a food plot or leave a strip of hay / grain in the field no matter what your intent is next year i plan on having at least 40acers of oats/ peas left for the deer, moose, bears, whatever wants it and i will probaly shoot a big buck off it and then so will my wife but then the deer have lots of healthy food for the winter after hunting season and then i can find their sheds in my field my intent is to bring the deer in and keep them there. not baiting because it was planted not placed

Not sure I agree with you. If you are planting something to attract game and you intend to hunt them, I would say that is a "food plot" or a planted bait.

"set out" may have different interpretations.

huntin · #30 08-22-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffy4

Not sure I agree with you. If you are planting something to attract game and you intend to hunt them, I would say that is a "food plot" or a planted bait.

"set out" may have different interpretations.

it is defenitly a food polt but where in the regulations does it say you can not plant food plots.