Hot Water On Demand?

[dodger]

I'm looking into a tank-less hot water system for my house. My 55 gal tank is getting older so it's time to replace it. Reading up on the tank-less system there are many websites stating how good of a system they are, but the one negative that pops up here and there is that in Canada the system has a hard time making " HOT " water due to our cold water supplies. I was thinking if this is a real problem why not install 2 tank-less systems. The first one being a real small one to take the cold edge off the water before it enters the large home unit.

I was wondering if anyone has upgraded to a tank-less system for there home and if there happy with it? Also if your in the Calgary area who did the install and are you happy with the quality of the install ?
Dodger.

[Jamie]

Dodger, the only time these seem to make sense is when you have a big tub to fill.
(12 Teenagers in the same house also might make sense)

The cost is just not right. I was quoted $4,000. And they will save you $20/month. A regualar tank should be around $1,000. The math doesnt seem to work.

Jamie

[dodger]

I have 5 people in our house with the washer going 6-8 hours every day. Plus I have a nice soaker tub that I like to kick back in on the weekend. The 55 gal tank will give me a hot bath but not a screaming hot bath and that's the way I like it for loosening up these old bones. If I am going to spend the money, I don't mind putting out a little extra mula for a quality product ( excluding my Jiffy ).
Dodger.

[firegod74]

A friend of mine was just checking into these things. He was saying to make sure that the one you get is CSA approved and not just UL (american) approved. I guess there have been some issues with insurance companies if the unit fails and the house is damaged.

[dodger]

If I go this route it will be CSA approved and the best in quality that I can find. Thanks for the tip.
Dodger.

[diamond k]

I am a home builder and I strongly recomend them. I have had no problems with any urban water supply. They allow for a higher water pressure and savings are greater than Jamie has stated( no offence implied). The biggest advantage is that you are not maintaining the heat in a tank when not used. Anyone who has bought a new home will understand that filling one of the new large jacuzzi tubs knows that a standard tank does not have the capacity to fill one. No i dont sell these just had good luck with our custmers who have chosen them.

[mtngoat]

A Rinnia RC98HPI would be a nice choice for your family. You may need to resize your gas line. Make sure heater has freeze protection as well.

[roots]

I'm not sure what the water quality is like in Calgary but the Rinnai rep has told me that the hard water in Edmonton is starting to plug up some of their units in the first year of operation. One thing to think about is Tank less heaters came from Europe were water is expensive and conserved but in Canadian homes that have high consumption rates they have to work for longer periods of time. I would stick the the 90% efficient hot water tank and install a second if you need the extra hot water.

[Vindalbakken]

I have been running tankless water heating for the past 23 years. The unit I have does both domestic hot water and space heating. CSA approved and 25+ years in production. It cost less to buy than what I have seen some of the current tankless water heaters selling for - so beware of what you are buying. There is a "cash cow" syndrome in effect now IMO.

The intake temperature is an issue. I have my own well and the water coming in is much colder than the temp. rise used for the flow ratings on the tank so I do not achieve the advertised flow rate. Oversize your unit.

Over the past four years I have averaged a consumption of 2.5 Gj/month to heat domestic hot water for two of us in the household. We have an oversized jacuzzi that gets filled once a week - takes 15 to 20 minutes to fill depending on how hot you want it. When we had two teenagers at home we used 5.1 Gj/month.

They are a blessing and a curse. When there is a houseful of company at Christmas and everyone wants a shower we can run 2 low flow shower heads continuously all day long if need be. When I want to fill the jacuzzi I can do it in one continuous pour. When I want to get a teenager out of the shower after 25 minutes I need to go downstairs and turn the unit off

[duffy4]

When ever I DEMAND something from my wife, I end up in HOT WATER.

[flyguyd]

I had one put in about 6 months ago because a new tank wasnt an option. I went with a Rinnai ,very high efficiency ,the venting is a little more expensive with this make because of the double walled pvc pipe. Hopefully you can put it close to an outside wall (they are direct vent ) and only need a couple sections of venting as its about $100 for a 3ft section . It takes a little getting use to as it can take 15-30 seconds for the water to get hot , but once its hot it never runs out. I dont know if its a hole lot cheaper for us .I have 2 teenage girls and 30 min showers are not uncommon in my house . The wife loves it also which works out great for me. If you want endless hot water you wont be dissapointed ,if you have any other questions please pm me im glad to share.

[Blackwolf]

As a mechanical contractor I highly recomend them... but I would install a Navian, and marry it with a multispeed blower to give you a better than high efficiency furnace/watertank. Gov't will rebate you around 3,000, so pay back is well within a 2 year period.

[thumper]

5 years ago we installed an instant electric hot water heater at our cabin, and had nothing but problems with it. The biggest problem was one or two of the heating elements kept tripping off, and then guests using the cabin fiddling with the controls trying to get it to work. My biggest fear was that some child was going to get badly scalded, so I ended up tearing it out and installing a conventional electric water heater (no gas or propane at the cabin).
The electric service it needed was huge (and expensive), the aireators for every tap & shower head had to be removed to prevent back-pressure, (which wastes water and negates any environmental benefit) and the very low temperature of the water supply was a problem. Also , people have a habit of quicky turning the hot water tap on & off for a quick rinse - which would cause the breakers to trip.

It was a very expensive mistake.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Gov't will rebate you around 3,000, so pay back is well within a 2 year period.

Any details on that?

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Any details on that?

what do you need to know?

[dodger]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I have been running tankless water heating for the past 23 years. The unit I have does both domestic hot water and space heating. CSA approved and 25+ years in production. It cost less to buy than what I have seen some of the current tankless water heaters selling for - so beware of what you are buying. There is a "cash cow" syndrome in effect now IMO.

The intake temperature is an issue. I have my own well and the water coming in is much colder than the temp. rise used for the flow ratings on the tank so I do not achieve the advertised flow rate. Oversize your unit.

Over the past four years I have averaged a consumption of 2.5 Gj/month to heat domestic hot water for two of us in the household. We have an oversized jacuzzi that gets filled once a week - takes 15 to 20 minutes to fill depending on how hot you want it. When we had two teenagers at home we used 5.1 Gj/month.

They are a blessing and a curse. When there is a houseful of company at Christmas and everyone wants a shower we can run 2 low flow shower heads continuously all day long if need be. When I want to fill the jacuzzi I can do it in one continuous pour. When I want to get a teenager out of the shower after 25 minutes I need to go downstairs and turn the unit off

Thanks for posting your experience with a tank-less heater, as this was the kind of info I was looking for !!

[dodger]

Originally Posted by duffy4

When ever I DEMAND something from my wife, I end up in HOT WATER.

We all can relate to that !!!
Dodger.

[dodger]

It seems that from everyone who has posted that our cold water is in fact "not" a problem. This was my major concern, I was worried about spending the money and ending up with hot water that was just never hot enough. Kind of like when you have the hot water tank set on med - low temp.

I appreciate the responses from everyone on this !

Thanks, Dodger.

[Springer]

My house is 4 years old and i run a Takagi. It has already been replaced once due to it misfiring like a worn out Model T. So it gets replaced,...a year later we are having issues, it takes 5 minutes to get hot water and finally you jump in & if your lucky it stays hot but most often it turns Cold for awhile then finally hot. I preferred my other system with the 2 hot water tanks.
Oh yes and my upstairs floor heat does not meet temp anymore. The system has been flushed with vinegar and no improvement. Personally i think the takagi is Junk and very expensive.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

As a mechanical contractor I highly recomend them... but I would install a Navian, and marry it with a multispeed blower to give you a better than high efficiency furnace/watertank. Gov't will rebate you around 3,000, so pay back is well within a 2 year period.

I have installed hundreds of these and highly recomend them. We always install the 240 model rated at approx 7 gpm but delivers approx 5 gpm in this climate.

A variable speed air handler is nice if you want to force air through a duct system but a HE variable speed furnace can be used as an air handler for very close to the same cost of install. The furnace is there for back up if need be.

Make certain the gas line is sized correctly and that your contractor is experienced with these units. As with most top end equip, failure can almost always be linked back to a bad install although there are a couple out there that don't work well no matter who installs it. Do some homework.

Not all units are high eff and the government rebate changes for the low end ones. Naviens are easy to vent and the most eff availiable. They have a very small built in tank which allows low flow of hot water without damaging the unit. (ie HE dishwashers and HE washers) Some units will not deliver hot water at these low rates.

You can also use the built in rescerc tank to run a loop system so hot water is availiable instantly in a remote location.

There is a learning curve for the homeowner however the benifits are far greater and I have had no one want a unit removed.

One last note. Modern pressure balanced fixtures and a quality water softener will ensure the unit operates to peek eff and give years of trouble free operation.

Good luck,
MK

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Springer

My house is 4 years old and i run a Takagi. It has already been replaced once due to it misfiring like a worn out Model T. So it gets replaced,...a year later we are having issues, it takes 5 minutes to get hot water and finally you jump in & if your lucky it stays hot but most often it turns Cold for awhile then finally hot. I preferred my other system with the 2 hot water tanks.
Oh yes and my upstairs floor heat does not meet temp anymore. The system has been flushed with vinegar and no improvement. Personally i think the takagi is Junk and very expensive.

This is my thinking on this product as well. I have yet to hear anything good about this brand and some others.

[Vindalbakken]

Interesting, I know of two industrial buildings that are running Takagi's for their space heating. Neither has had any issues I know of.

Dodger, the intake temp. is an issue. You can get water as hot as you need, but you will not get as much of it as the specs on the unit say.

[MK2750]

Sorry for being long winded but another thing to consider is ease of service. Some units are a make work project for the contractor because they require an anual service call.

Get a unit that is easily flushed and have your contractor explain the procedure before agreeing to install.

[dodger]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Sorry for being long winded but another thing to consider is ease of service. Some units are a make work project for the contractor because they require an anual service call.

Get a unit that is easily flushed and have your contractor explain the procedure before agreeing to install.

See, even an old f@rt like me learns something new every day! This was good advice that never crossed my mind.
Thanks, Dodger.

[rhuntley12]

I've wanted one of these for awhile, but hot water tank hasn't blown up to give me an excuse to get one.

Seems everyone I've talked to either loves theirs 100% or they hate them and have had nothing but problems. Hearing that cold water going through them isn't a big deal is a relief as our well water is cold, cold, cold. The lines clogging is a bit concerning as we are on a septic and have really hard water.

[reds]

Hey sorry to get a little off topic but i just had one installed recently,works great!but how does anyone no more about this gov't rebate is this seperate from the home renevations credit?
Thanks

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by reds

Hey sorry to get a little off topic but i just had one installed recently,works great!but how does anyone no more about this gov't rebate is this seperate from the home renevations credit?
Thanks

Government rebates require a pre and post inspection. If you did not have an evalution before install you will not qualify for the rebates.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Dodger, the only time these seem to make sense is when you have a big tub to fill.
(12 Teenagers in the same house also might make sense)

The cost is just not right. I was quoted $4,000. And they will save you $20/month. A regualar tank should be around $1,000. The math doesnt seem to work.

Jamie

Just as a clarification. My numbers came directly from someone selling these things at the Renovation show 2 weekends ago.
But, spend what you wish. I still think its a neat product.

Jamie

[Heron]

We just moved into our new house 2 months ago and got the Navian. We like it a lot. The contractor told us there use to be problems like slight fluctuation in temperature but that has been worked out with a small tank inside the machine. There is some noise to them but not bad at all. There is four of us showering in the morning and often 2 showers running at the same time. Really quite nice.

[Shaner]

I have a tankless hot water system in my house and I would have to say that it's the best upgrade I think we have put into the house. It is great because all of us can shower and we still have hot water. theres no end and you can shower as long as you like. Plus, you can set it up for in floor heating, and you can set it up to circulate and reheat the water inside the unit, so there isnt that long wait for hot water. Esentially, you only have to wait for the water to get from the unit to your faucet.
I would say that its totally worth the upgrade.
In addition, Ive noticed MAJOR savings in our gas bills too.
Cheers,
S