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Old 04-13-2010, 10:45 PM
msawyer msawyer is offline
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Default Plywood sub-floor

Hello all...

I have a major house renovation underway and need to source a supply of 3/4 " spruce or fir plywood for a new sub-floor. I need 45 4 x 8 sheets - does anyone have a line on plywood at a good price. Please PM if you do...

Best regards

Mike
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:42 AM
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If you ae in Calgary try Lumber King. Their 3/4" T & G select fir is about 30.00 per sheet. Totem is about the same.
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:45 AM
Enigma Enigma is offline
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If I may ask...3/4 inch for sure?? Most sub-floors are 5/8 T&G OSB and then anywhere you need tile, another layer of 3/8th's on top of that.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:06 AM
hockey1099 hockey1099 is offline
 
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we used t@g osb for a subfloor in the basement prior to laying hard wood down.

Im thinking your going to save money with OSB over plywood.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:19 AM
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If I may ask...3/4 inch for sure?? Most sub-floors are 5/8 T&G OSB and then anywhere you need tile, another layer of 3/8th's on top of that.
5/8 is adequate, 3/4 is better. You can tell the difference, especially on 19.2 joist centers. Plywood is way more moisture resistant, important if the floor is going to be exposed to the elememts for a while. I've seen 5/8 OSB turn to 1 1/4, after a couple of weeks of rain.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:24 AM
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Oh I agree...3/4 ply is way better,...but at 45 sheets, also about $1,000 more expensive. OSB can sit for a good couple of weeks without deteriorating. Being a reno, I doubt weather is a factor here.
Many multi-million dollar executive homes are built with OSB without any problem.
Just trying to help.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:41 AM
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who cares about the cost, if you planon staying in the house use the plywood. much stonger!!
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bingo1010 View Post
who cares about the cost, if you planon staying in the house use the plywood. much stonger!!


"Model building codes typically use the phrase “wood structural panel” to describe the use of plywood and osb. Codes recognize these two materials as the same. Likewise, APA the Engineered Wood Association, the agency responsible for approving more than 75% of the structural panels used in residential construction, treat osb and plywood as equals in their published performance guidelines. And wood scientists agree that the structural performance of osb and plywood are equivalent.

Osb and plywood share the same exposure durability classifications: Interior, Exposure 1 (95% of all structural panels), Exposure 2 and Exterior. They share the same set of performance standards and span ratings. Both materials are installed on roofs, walls and floors using one set of recommendations. Installation requirements prescribing the use of H-clips on roofs, blocking on floors and allowance of single-layer floor systems are identical. The weights of osb and plywood are similar: 7/16-inch osb and 1/2-inch plywood weigh in at 46 and 48 pounds. However, 3/4-inch Sturd-I-Floor plywood weighs 70 pounds, 10 pounds less than its osb counterpart. Even the storage recommendations are the same: keep panels off of the ground and protected from weather.

Professor Poo Chow, a researcher at the University of Illinois, studied the withdrawal and head pull-through performance of nails and staples in plywood, waferboard and osb. Chow found that in both dry and 6-cycle aged tests: osb and waferboard performed equal to or better than CD-grade plywood. The results of another independent study conducted by Raymond LaTona at the Weyerhauser Technology Center in Tacoma also showed that withdrawal strengths in osb and plywood are the same. But, while the two products may perform the same structurally, they are undeniably different materials."
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bingo1010 View Post
who cares about the cost, if you planon staying in the house use the plywood. much stonger!!
You're right. Never thought about that. OSB will only last 50 some-odd years. OP; I'd sugest 12" centers of titanium I-beams, and two layers of 1" G1S teak ply.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:12 AM
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I have been framing for over 20 years and my own commercial framing business for 13. Price aside OSB is better. Straighter, more rigid, and IMO more resilant to weather. You can span OSB on floors up to 24" on center, let me see you do that with any plywood. Old school plywood with old school glue might have stood a chance. New world new glue, Fir and Spruce delaminates way faster than OSB. I have had no call backs with OSB installation, and could not even count how many with plywood. It literly delaminates and falls apart if left to the elements for any time. I have seen OSB sheathing lay around in the elements for years and it may swell a little over the prolonged time, but fir plywood would be 1/8' planneling. Keep in mind I install 130,000 ft/2 of the stuff per project (on the floor, thats 4500 sheets) and OSB was my choice in my own house and I recommend it to everyone else. As far as sizing most floors now are 19.2 joist spacing and require 3/4. If you are installing directly on to the joists at 16" OC then 5/8" would work, 3/4" just makes it that much more rigid of a floor. Either will work, installation is most important, lots of subfloor glue evenly applied to each joist and secure it right away to pull the sheathing into the joists. Now we can get into are screws better than nails argument.

Get your self a coil nailer and pound in 2.5" ardox nails it will never move.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:33 AM
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We don't even know what he is doing with the plywood. If he is building a deck and is putting vinyl on it he needs select fir T&G. So until we know what he is using it for lets not tell him how to spend his money.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:11 PM
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Price aside OSB is better. Straighter, more rigid, and IMO more resilant to weather.
Gotta agree with this. OSB is all the things 827rotax notes, as well as being much more consistent from one production lot to the next.

The old standards no longer apply in structural sheathing IME.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:43 PM
rena0040 rena0040 is offline
 
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star building material in calgary had some cull 3/4 plywood for $18/sheet. I picked some up and had no issues with it.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:14 PM
whitetailhntr whitetailhntr is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 827rotax View Post
I have been framing for over 20 years and my own commercial framing business for 13. Price aside OSB is better. Straighter, more rigid, and IMO more resilant to weather. You can span OSB on floors up to 24" on center, let me see you do that with any plywood. Old school plywood with old school glue might have stood a chance. New world new glue, Fir and Spruce delaminates way faster than OSB. I have had no call backs with OSB installation, and could not even count how many with plywood. It literly delaminates and falls apart if left to the elements for any time. I have seen OSB sheathing lay around in the elements for years and it may swell a little over the prolonged time, but fir plywood would be 1/8' planneling. Keep in mind I install 130,000 ft/2 of the stuff per project (on the floor, thats 4500 sheets) and OSB was my choice in my own house and I recommend it to everyone else. As far as sizing most floors now are 19.2 joist spacing and require 3/4. If you are installing directly on to the joists at 16" OC then 5/8" would work, 3/4" just makes it that much more rigid of a floor. Either will work, installation is most important, lots of subfloor glue evenly applied to each joist and secure it right away to pull the sheathing into the joists. Now we can get into are screws better than nails argument.

Get your self a coil nailer and pound in 2.5" ardox nails it will never move.
X10.....Been framing houses for longer than i care to remember and what this gentleman is saying is the truth. Old schooll thinking That plywood is better than osb is an old wives tails. I Usually insist on Osb on the projects I do.I sure as heck won't use plywood on roofs or walls , ever. I get the ood floor to do with plywood but usually try to convince the customer to use osb. There is weather resistant osb floor sheating available now as well . It will weather up to 90 days without swelling. I've used it and its a very good products. Ditto on the lots of glue and ringed nails. 99% of the stuff we do is 3/4 as well...but hey what do we know we Only install 100 of thousands of square feet of the stuff ......
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:58 AM
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quick question for the guys in the know, if osb is so superior to plywood why do they still make plywood if it is so inferior to osb?
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:04 AM
Enigma Enigma is offline
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quick question for the guys in the know, if osb is so superior to plywood why do they still make plywood if it is so inferior to osb?
LOL. Pretty tough to have a nice finish with OSB. Cabinetry, built-ins, finished surfaces, exotic woods, sub-floor for tile, etc all need plywood. For just structural strength that gets covered with another surface...OSB is the material of choice.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:14 AM
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quick question for the guys in the know, if osb is so superior to plywood why do they still make plywood if it is so inferior to osb?
I've repaired shingled roofs of both kinds of materials. After a leak, the OSB ones were a lot more prone to needing replacement, than plywood and the damage was more extensive. Where weight is a consideration, plywood is about half the weight of wood chips and glue, and it doesn't eat saw blades either. The plus side of OSB is that the strenght isn't directional, like plywood. Also important to install OSB right side up, especially on a roof. From personal experience, build a shed out of plywood, give it a coat of paint or stain and it will outlast the OSB version, a couple of times.

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Old 04-15-2010, 07:20 AM
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Last time I sheeted a roof with ply, it was from a lift that had been in the weather for 6 months. What should have taken me 6 hours took me closer to 16. My cousin bought into the "plywood is better thing" and insisted we use it on his shop. He also had an irrational fear of framing staples.

If he wasn't family, I likely would have passed on that job.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:23 AM
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I've repaired shingled roofs of both kinds of materials. After a leak, the OSB ones were a lot more prone to needing replacement, than plywood and the damage was more extensive. Where weight is a consideration, plywood is about half the weight of wood chips and glue, and it doesn't eat saw blades either. The plus side of OSB is that the strenght isn't directional, like plywood. Also important to install OSB right side up, especially on a roof.

Grizz
Actually the axis of strength with osb is the same as plywood, it's just not nearly as flimsy in the off direction. Sheating comes with stamps indacating this so people use it properly. The saw blade thing I don't buy either, use good blades and they last plenty long. Guys that can't run saws are way harder on blades than any osb. You are right about the using the rough side up though...not fun on steep roofs when the "shiny" side is up.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bingo1010 View Post
quick question for the guys in the know, if osb is so superior to plywood why do they still make plywood if it is so inferior to osb?
As already commented on, for certain applications OSB is far better. I also said IMO. Take as that an opinion; you or anyone may choose your own product. All I said is that in the course of a year myself and crew can install well over 50,000 sheets, walls, floor and roof. When installing OSB I never have a problem, period. I cannot say that of Plywood.
Just like engineered joists- ever seen a 2x10 span 25' over a living room?? nope cause they cant. The new floors are all engineered joists because they are stronger srtaighter and have way more felxiblity for plumbing heating etc.. and wait for it..... they are made with OSB. The engineers recomend OSB subfloor for there joist, but what do they know.
Same as me, what do I know just been installing the S*@t for 20 years. Note: a good saw blade with a consceince framer can go a long way, it is nails, concrete and foreign matter than ruins the blades way faster.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:07 PM
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quick question for the guys in the know, if osb is so superior to plywood why do they still make plywood if it is so inferior to osb?
Some guy want's to know where he can get a deal on some 3/4" ply and it turns into a sh$tfest about whether Captain Kirk is better than Captain Picard.

Some of you guys are getting to be like BC'ers were 30 years ago:

"They will sell you everything they have - which isn't much and they will tell you everything they know - which is even less".

So where can he get a deal on some plywood - I'd kind of like to know myself?

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:45 PM
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Some guy want's to know where he can get a deal on some 3/4" ply and it turns into a sh$tfest about whether Captain Kirk is better than Captain Picard.



Cheers,
Jim

Captain Kirk of course.....

Sheeshhhhh


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