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Old 12-22-2010, 08:58 AM
beedhead beedhead is offline
 
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Default Proposed Regulation Changes For Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes

Hi Fellow Anglers. A good friend and I attended the ASRD Round table meeting last week concerning regulation changes to The Kananaskis Lakes. It was a very informative meeting, and we had a lot of support. We have started a Petition (that can be signed on the link provided below) that proposes new regulations.


The current regulations for the Upper and Lower Kananaskis lakes are: "Open all year-Trout (except bull trout) limit 3; Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout over 30 cm; Bait Ban." We feel that these lakes have the potential to provide QUALITY FISHERIES, provided that the fish are allowed to live long enough. To that end, we are proposing that the following regulations be implemented, so as to permit QUALITY FISHERIES to develop: "Open all year-Trout (except bull trout) limit 1; Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout over 50 cm; Bait Ban."

Some of the issues we are faced with are that: Catchable-sized (20-30 cm) Cutthroat Trout are being stocked in both Kananaskis Lakes. Many stocked fish are being harvested shortly after stocking. Current size limit provides no protection for spawners. Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout can grow to a very large size (> 70 cm) and live to up to 11 years in the Kananaskis Lakes. For these reasons, we feel that Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes provide the best opportunity for creation of readily accessible QUALITY FISHERIES in the area west of Calgary. This initiative would support SRD's commitment to develop more quality stocked trout fisheries in Alberta, following a survey which showed strong angler support for the development of more quality stocked trout fisheries in Alberta.


It is unlikely that a 50-cm maximum size limit would work as well as the proposed 50-cm minimum size limit, since fishing pressure on the Kananaskis Lakes is great enough that most of the cutthroat/rainbow trout would be harvested before they reached 50 cm. As a result, it is unlikely that a 50-cm maximum size limit would greatly improve catch rates or fish size.

The proposed regulation is not strictly C&R, since it still allows anglers to harvest cutthroat/rainbow over 50 cm. All that is required is for harvest-oriented anglers to exercise some restraint for a few years, while the number and average size of fish increases in the lakes. In the mean time, anglers will be able to enjoy a fishery that improves as it develops into a QUALITY FISHERY, which is something that an increasing number of anglers have been requesting in recent years. For the area west of Calgary, Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes provide the best opportunity to create readily accessible QUALITY FISHERIES.

While the proposed 50-cm minimum size limit won't protect as many cutthroat/rainbow trout spawners as would a 60-cm minimum size limit or total C&R regulation, it will still protect more spawners than the current regulations. If, in the future, enough anglers wish to have the minimum size limit increased to further increase the average size of fish and quality of the fishery, this is something that can be done then.

Thank you so much for your time.

Jeff Wilson & Jake Gotta.

Link to the petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/dekkbeed/petition.html


The New Proposed Regulations Poster.





Petition link
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:05 AM
Dust1n Dust1n is offline
 
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id b happy to see that happen
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:44 AM
Jimboy Jimboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beedhead View Post
Hi Fellow Anglers. A good friend and I attended the ASRD Round table meeting last week concerning regulation changes to The Kananaskis Lakes. It was a very informative meeting, and we had a lot of support. We have started a Petition (that can be signed on the link provided below) that proposes new regulations.


The current regulations for the Upper and Lower Kananaskis lakes are: "Open all year-Trout (except bull trout) limit 3; Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout over 30 cm; Bait Ban." We feel that these lakes have the potential to provide QUALITY FISHERIES, provided that the fish are allowed to live long enough. To that end, we are proposing that the following regulations be implemented, so as to permit QUALITY FISHERIES to develop: "Open all year-Trout (except bull trout) limit 1; Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout over 50 cm; Bait Ban."

Some of the issues we are faced with are that: Catchable-sized (20-30 cm) Cutthroat Trout are being stocked in both Kananaskis Lakes. Many stocked fish are being harvested shortly after stocking. Current size limit provides no protection for spawners. Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout can grow to a very large size (> 70 cm) and live to up to 11 years in the Kananaskis Lakes. For these reasons, we feel that Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes provide the best opportunity for creation of readily accessible QUALITY FISHERIES in the area west of Calgary. This initiative would support SRD's commitment to develop more quality stocked trout fisheries in Alberta, following a survey which showed strong angler support for the development of more quality stocked trout fisheries in Alberta.


It is unlikely that a 50-cm maximum size limit would work as well as the proposed 50-cm minimum size limit, since fishing pressure on the Kananaskis Lakes is great enough that most of the cutthroat/rainbow trout would be harvested before they reached 50 cm. As a result, it is unlikely that a 50-cm maximum size limit would greatly improve catch rates or fish size.

The proposed regulation is not strictly C&R, since it still allows anglers to harvest cutthroat/rainbow over 50 cm. All that is required is for harvest-oriented anglers to exercise some restraint for a few years, while the number and average size of fish increases in the lakes. In the mean time, anglers will be able to enjoy a fishery that improves as it develops into a QUALITY FISHERY, which is something that an increasing number of anglers have been requesting in recent years. For the area west of Calgary, Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes provide the best opportunity to create readily accessible QUALITY FISHERIES.

While the proposed 50-cm minimum size limit won't protect as many cutthroat/rainbow trout spawners as would a 60-cm minimum size limit or total C&R regulation, it will still protect more spawners than the current regulations. If, in the future, enough anglers wish to have the minimum size limit increased to further increase the average size of fish and quality of the fishery, this is something that can be done then.

Thank you so much for your time.

Jeff Wilson & Jake Gotta.

Link to the petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/dekkbeed/petition.html


The New Proposed Regulations Poster.





Petition link

Very nice , another step to encourage me not to go fishing or even buy a lic , l love fresh fish and if l,m spending x amount of bucks on gas to go fishing l expect to at least bring home enough fish for the family , one fish dont cut it , l,m not a kiss and release fanatic , sitting there trying to catch a fish only to let it go makes no sense to me ,and if l just want the feel of a tug on my line , then l,ll attach my fishin line to my dog , now thats a real fight , l,m a hook and cook man.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:02 AM
Dust1n Dust1n is offline
 
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you know what they need some lakes strickly catch and realse for sport fisherman and some catch and keep all catches for people who like to have fresh fish so you can have the best of both worlds
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:06 AM
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RayL42 RayL42 is offline
 
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I would support the change if it was on the lower only. If they wanted large Cutthroats on the upper they should never have stocked the Bulls. The fishery should be for every one and if the proposed changes are made to the upper lake then it will become another fishery for the experienced catch and release fisher only.

As for the lower from what I understand it has the ability to support spawning and has always had a native population of bull trout. I would therefore support changes to the lower that made it more then a stocked pond.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:07 AM
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I'd love to see this regulation brought in. As well as rainbows being stocked again in upper kananaskis. Whoever's bright idea it was to get rid of the rainbows in upper kananaskis and stock bull trout/cutthroat should be smacked around.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:09 AM
thumper thumper is offline
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I like seeing the kids and young families fishing these lakes with a good expectation of catching a fish or 2 for the campfire. The lakes are easily accessible for the hatchery trucks to stock, and people don't need a lot of expensive equipment or pleasure-boat licenses to fish from shore.

For them, this is already a QUALITY FISHERY
On the poster, I believe that QUALITY FISHERY should be changed to TROPHY FISHERY to better reflect what is being proposed.

With the severe draw-down of these reservoirs, there's little aquatic vegetation to provide the insect life needed for a large, year-round biomass of fish, and I'd rather see a largely 'put & take' fishery here for the more 'casual' fisher (families/kids/tourists).

As the chart indicates, there is an existing population of big (+50 cm) fish here. If the trophy fisherman want, they can target them and leave the hatchery fish for the kids. Or, utilize one of the many 'hike-in' Kananaskis lakes for this purpose, where casual fishers are not as likely to frequent.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:26 AM
The Elkster The Elkster is offline
 
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I would also support ONE of the two lakes going this route. Lower K would provide tonnes of opportunity for any special interest group wanting a trophy fishery. That lake could sustain hundreds of catch and release fishers without crowding. The upper lake however should return to rainbow stocking and they should keep the limit as is at least for that species. Upper K is plenty big enough to support a managed Cutty and bull population along with a put and take rainbow fishery.

In general I am leary about this direction as both lakes produced and still produce nice fish without the micromanagement from a special interest groups. The only thing that has changed lately is we lost a strong rainbow fishery. The sign of a healthy lake isn't just big fish. Nature doesn't selectively take only large fish...what about birds taking all those <50cm fish so why do we think thats a good idea. This isn't a resource strength issue this is a personal preference issue.

In the end these are all stocked fish. Something to keep in mind.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:29 AM
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I am for the creation of trophy fisheries, as long as it is balanced with fisheries that are managed for numbers and harvest. But do those lakes have the prey base to support significan numbers of large fish.

Next on the list, get them to try and establish ciscos/lake whitefish or something the lakers in spray will eat to get those bigger.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7 View Post
you know what they need some lakes strickly catch and realse for sport fisherman and some catch and keep all catches for people who like to have fresh fish so you can have the best of both worlds
Such a system is already in place generally speaking in Alberta, there are lots of "stocky ponds" all across the province for the meat anglers & several rivers, streams, & lakes that are either fully C&R or have a very limited retention allotment for C&R people. The biggest complaint I hear from meat anglers is "We need to be able to keep fish from more places than the trout ponds because all you can catch there is 8"-12" trout!" An ironic complaint to be sure.

There are some lakes which puzzle me however, such as Pine which is a very popular lake containing a decent variety of species & at first glance at the regs looks like a good place to fish for the day & go home with a feed of fish. When you really break it down however, there is a 0 retention on walleye, a perch limit of 5 which basically means you might as well not even fish for them, 3 burbot (of which I have never hooked even 1), & 3 pike over 25" of which I have only caught two in my life that big there. I asked a F&W officer about the ridiculous 5 perch limit & she said it was to "discourage the keeping of perch" there! I don't understand why they don't just turn it into a C&R lake & be done with it, wouldn't change things much aside from keeping a few more snot rockets out of the frying pan.

Another option for lakes like Pine would be to make them C&R for the summer & then have a 1 walleye & 10 perch daily limit from ice up to March 1st or something. Maybe it's just me but I might only keep 3 or 4 fish over the whole summer but in the winter I feel jipped if I don't go home with at least a couple for a meal.

Last edited by pikester; 12-22-2010 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:58 AM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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I am all for "balanced numbers" of lakes for catch and kill vs. quality/trophy/catch and release. Let see...there is less than 20 special regulation lakes in all of Alberta and hundreds of lakes where you can kill fish for the table. Therefore to balance things out we need to increase the number of special regulation lakes by a significant number.
As far as food in the Kananaskis lakes, there is large population of Mysis shrimp that are consumed by both the Bull and rainbow trout. Additionally there is a pretty good sucker population that adds small fish to the system every year.

Cutthroat trout were added to the Upper lake to return the fish population to a more natural state. This has been the plan for many areas across North America. It seems some feel they would rather have Rainbows than Cutthroats in the Upper lake. Can someone tell me why they don't like the Cutthroats? In my experience they are easier to catch (and therefore should be easier to get in the freezer).
I like the idea of a lake with really big fish within a couple of hours of home. Then I don't have to drive to BC to catch some quality fish. I pay for my license every year and would love to catch rainbows that are more than 12".
I have had the opportunity to catch fish over 25" in Kananaskis and it is a blast. The chance to catch them more frequently would be awesome.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:16 PM
fishpro fishpro is offline
 
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As a person who wants more quality fisheries, I will say that I do support this and have signed the petition already. However, I also see the need for put and take fisheries. For those who are opposed to this, keep in mind that there are a lot of other fisheries created where you can keep more fish. Currently most lakes are catch and keep fisheries, and the fishermen wanting quality lakes have very few places to fish.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboy View Post
Very nice , another step to encourage me not to go fishing or even buy a lic , l love fresh fish and if l,m spending x amount of bucks on gas to go fishing l expect to at least bring home enough fish for the family , one fish dont cut it , l,m not a kiss and release fanatic , sitting there trying to catch a fish only to let it go makes no sense to me ,and if l just want the feel of a tug on my line , then l,ll attach my fishin line to my dog , now thats a real fight , l,m a hook and cook man.
There were a lot of guys that thought the same thing as you when the Bullshead regulation change was proposed.

One thing you have to take into account is that a 12 inch rainbow has far less meat than a 22 inch rainbow. A 22 inch rainbow probably has more meat than 5 - 12 inch rainbows or more. So I would like you to consider these points such once the fish sizes catch up to the regulations that you will benefit 2 fold. Firstly you will get to keep one large rainbow that will feed a family...secondly you will have a lot more fun fighting a larger size class of trout.

Quality fishery does not mean catch and release fishery. It just means when you catch a fish it is big enough to give you a fight.

I would also say that the times are gone when you could justify the time to fish and buy gas versus the pounds of fish returned home. There are just too many people in Alberta fishing and to be fair to your fellow anglers...the resource can not justify everyone keeping their limits every time they go out. You seem to be dissing the catch and release folks...but if not for them, your personal limits would probably drop to 10% of where they are at now. So remember IMHO...as a fishing community, we are all working together to make this a great "recreational" activity...and not purely a grocery shopping trip.

Cheers

Sun
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishpro View Post
As a person who wants more quality fisheries, I will say that I do support this and have signed the petition already. However, I also see the need for put and take fisheries. For those who are opposed to this, keep in mind that there are a lot of other fisheries created where you can keep more fish. Currently most lakes are catch and keep fisheries, and the fishermen wanting quality lakes have very few places to fish.
Not sure if you agree but I categorize these regulation changes as a put and take fishery. It is just we have an initial delay of a year or two until the first stocking reaches 20 inches...then obviously...they will get harvested. Thereafter...every year trout will be stocked...but every year the next batch to grow to 20 inches will be harvested.

I still believe as mentioned above...the recreational benefits happen for all...and actually these changes benefit those that wish to kill trout more so than catch and release anglers. The harvesters get the benefit of larger, more exciting trout to catch...and an awesome larger trout to eat...
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:46 PM
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i have mixed feelings about special interests groups.
fly fish only
closed to ice fishing
bait bans
in some cases what happens to the little kid who wants to or is limited to using a red and white bobber with a good old fashion worm on the end. what happens to the old fellow who has paid his taxes all his hard working life and just wants to sit on lawn chair waiting for his bell to ring. Both those fisherman just want and hope they get a bite, reel a fish in, bonk it for supper in most cases.
I have a simple maybe primitive solution. Our government needs to reward the hard working people with recreation oppurtunities on a equal level. We have way too may fawktard special interest groups sucking up tax dollars not just in the fishing sector. Social groups and look at me look at me groups make me sick. Use our tax dollars to reward the general public.
I also hate seeing new regulations which cost money..........chit who's inforcing those new rules- the 6 game wardens covering southern alberta?
Im not totally against trophy fisheries but im against doing it where the general public has easy access to. You want to be labelled Special you go the extra mile and effort to fish a trophy lake.
Way easier way to make it a trophy special lake.....build a humungous wall that needs a special type person to climb....then all the families with little kids and old veterans cant get near your lake.......that p.s. the people of alberta own.

Last edited by chubbdarter; 12-22-2010 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:05 PM
rellum rellum is offline
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The fishery in upper kananaskis was ruined when they introduced the bull trout. It would be nice if this province would get off this bull trout fetish. I use to take my boys,scouts etc. every winter up there and we were able to catch a reasonable sized fish using bait.
It does not matter what you guys do, the cutthroats and rainbows will never reach 50cm with the bull trouts around.
Basically there is no lake that can be easiy reach that offers what upper kananaskis did. The majority of the stocked lakes the fish are small and taste like mud.
Thanks guys for ruining a perfectly good fishery any more lakes you want to ruin with your bull trout garbage?
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:06 PM
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I voted for it. I think it is a great idea.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:15 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Just so you know rellum, there has been Bull trout and big rainbows living together in the Lower lake for over 20 years. The rainbows can/do get big if they get a chance (25-30"). Perhaps there will be more in the future.

Can you not catch the Cutthroats in the Upper lake through the ice?
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:35 PM
jeprli jeprli is offline
 
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This is a great idea and gives equal opportunity to both c&r crowd and harvesters.

Whoever complained about license cost needs to check around and realize how cheap it is to fish in Alberta and Canada in general compared to other countries.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rellum View Post
The fishery in upper kananaskis was ruined when they introduced the bull trout. It would be nice if this province would get off this bull trout fetish. I use to take my boys,scouts etc. every winter up there and we were able to catch a reasonable sized fish using bait.
It does not matter what you guys do, the cutthroats and rainbows will never reach 50cm with the bull trouts around.
Basically there is no lake that can be easiy reach that offers what upper kananaskis did. The majority of the stocked lakes the fish are small and taste like mud.
Thanks guys for ruining a perfectly good fishery any more lakes you want to ruin with your bull trout garbage?
Actually I think you may be leaping to judgments based upon a misunderstanding of the facts.

The reason the rainbow trout fishing went down hill is because F&W stopped stocking. They actually did a study that showed the tax payers were paying $10 for every $1 they got back in fish. The system was just not working. Further study showed stocking small rainbows did not work because they could just not compete with the mountains of suckers in the lakes. The bull trout were there for a long time and the rainbows did get big...if they could find food. The bull trout recovery program was designed to help the population recover and at the same time help cull the tons of suckers. That seems to have helped.

Now the plan is to grow big rainbows to catch. We know they can grow big because they do currently...there just are not many around because there is a tiny spawning population that adds a few individuals every year. A new stocking program of larger rainbows...which will be allowed to grow to 20 inches before harvest will be a net benefit...and catching big fish is fun!

chubdarter...

There are no special interest groups with any power in Alberta. We are fairly spineless as a group. Currently regulations are managed based upon the population, species, location etc. Regulations to protect the fishery and to prevent over harvest or exploitation or damage are for your benefit. Anarchy and chaos and a free for all would not improve the fishery and I hope you can see that. Ice fishing in some situations makes harvest way to easy and in effect all the fish could be removed taking away any recreational potential for the ensuing year. They have to balance harvest with population and fishing pressure.

Bait fishing while fine...I do it a lot...also has consequences. If you catch your limit then go home...that is fine from one point of view...but if 1000 more people show up...then a month later you come back to fish and are ticked off there is nothing left. Plus someone else may keep putting back injured trout hoping for a bigger one or just passing time till the end of the day...meanwhile they take 5 home...but baiting fishing method killed 25 more after they bled to death.

You feel that catching more bigger fish and keeping one large fish is against your rights as a tax payer...but from a value perspective you are ahead. Maybe you are just generalizing but realizing the numbers of fishermen are increasing...keeping enough fish in the water for everyone to enjoy is as you can imagine a juggling trick. As a recreational sport for everyone to enjoy...creating better fisheries close to large populations just makes sense IMHO. You are trying to link a 20 inch rainbow to a trophy lake...but sorry I don't call 20 inch stocked rainbows a trophy...

In the end...I love seeing grandpa...sitting in a lawn chair...enjoying retirement...waiting for his bell to ring and eat a trout...but behind every story there is a process to get you there. Trout don't grow on trees and their is not an endless supply. We have to manage what we have for everyone and if you see what happens at Maclean Pond or Mt Lorette Ponds...you will see the frutility of endorsing standard stock and leave fisheries. They get fished out in 2 weeks. Grandpa can park his butt in a lawnchair for all of August and never see a bite...that is sad.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:43 PM
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'You are trying to link a 20 inch rainbow to a trophy lake...but sorry I don't call 20 inch stocked rainbows a trophy...'



lmfao....i gonna step out on a limb and suggest you dont have the +20lb RBT or BT record i have.
the rest i appreciate what youve said . i respect everyones views. thats why the NDP still has party in Alberta
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:46 PM
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Signed. Great idea!
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beedhead View Post
Hi Fellow Anglers. A good friend and I attended the ASRD Round table meeting last week concerning regulation changes to The Kananaskis Lakes. It was a very informative meeting, and we had a lot of support. We have started a Petition (that can be signed on the link provided below) that proposes new regulations.


The current regulations for the Upper and Lower Kananaskis lakes are: "Open all year-Trout (except bull trout) limit 3; Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout over 30 cm; Bait Ban." We feel that these lakes have the potential to provide QUALITY FISHERIES, provided that the fish are allowed to live long enough. To that end, we are proposing that the following regulations be implemented, so as to permit QUALITY FISHERIES to develop: "Open all year-Trout (except bull trout) limit 1; Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout over 50 cm; Bait Ban."

Some of the issues we are faced with are that: Catchable-sized (20-30 cm) Cutthroat Trout are being stocked in both Kananaskis Lakes. Many stocked fish are being harvested shortly after stocking. Current size limit provides no protection for spawners. Cutthroat and Rainbow Trout can grow to a very large size (> 70 cm) and live to up to 11 years in the Kananaskis Lakes. For these reasons, we feel that Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes provide the best opportunity for creation of readily accessible QUALITY FISHERIES in the area west of Calgary. This initiative would support SRD's commitment to develop more quality stocked trout fisheries in Alberta, following a survey which showed strong angler support for the development of more quality stocked trout fisheries in Alberta.


It is unlikely that a 50-cm maximum size limit would work as well as the proposed 50-cm minimum size limit, since fishing pressure on the Kananaskis Lakes is great enough that most of the cutthroat/rainbow trout would be harvested before they reached 50 cm. As a result, it is unlikely that a 50-cm maximum size limit would greatly improve catch rates or fish size.

The proposed regulation is not strictly C&R, since it still allows anglers to harvest cutthroat/rainbow over 50 cm. All that is required is for harvest-oriented anglers to exercise some restraint for a few years, while the number and average size of fish increases in the lakes. In the mean time, anglers will be able to enjoy a fishery that improves as it develops into a QUALITY FISHERY, which is something that an increasing number of anglers have been requesting in recent years. For the area west of Calgary, Upper and Lower Kananaskis Lakes provide the best opportunity to create readily accessible QUALITY FISHERIES.

Although I tend to agree with you in principle, I think Thumper addresses two very valid points; the proposal points to development of a trophy fishery as opposed to improving the quality of the fishery in general. The moniker of "quality fishery" is a very objective term which is open to personal interpretation. By specifying the desire to create a "trophy fishery" you will allow people to polarize for or against this proposal. Clarifying this point might even help garner more support for you.

The other point Thumper makes about water fluctuation affecting the biomass of the littoral zone especially in the upper lake is what I have been told is the second biggest reason (next to quality spawning habitat) for lack of a productively self sustaining fishery in any lake or reservoir. How much of an impact did your committee see this as having on the fishery?
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
'You are trying to link a 20 inch rainbow to a trophy lake...but sorry I don't call 20 inch stocked rainbows a trophy...'



lmfao....i gonna step out on a limb and suggest you dont have the +20lb RBT or BT record i have.
the rest i appreciate what youve said . i respect everyones views. thats why the NDP still has party in Alberta
I am not sure we are agreeing or not agreeing. I strongly believe that "+20lb RBT or BT" are trophies. All I said is a 20 inch (as in inches long...not lbs) is NOT a trophy. Just a nice size trout to catch versus a 12 inch trout.

There seems to be a vocal group on this thread that is trying to equate letting the trout grow 2 extra years before harvest as a trophy fishery. After 2 years...thereafter we would see a yearly group of rainbows reaching 20 inches.

I would say rainbows over 10 lbs would start being called trophies...stocked or otherwise. That would put them at 28 - 34 inches long here I suspect and that is not what is proposed.

Are we in agreement or...please explain your point further. We can share notes...

Thanks a bunch

Sun
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  #25  
Old 12-22-2010, 06:30 PM
The Elkster The Elkster is offline
 
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IMO the upper lake is ideal for a multi species management system. Forget this "natural" crud with the cutties and bulls. The lakes are manmade reservoirs that would be nothing but a puddle without human intervention to begin with. Cutties and Bulls can stay. Make them C&R or any other size/slot limit and leave the rainbow as catch and keep with some yearly stocking. Is there a problem with having everyone content? Oh did I mention the mysis shrimp are also non-native introductions...ahhhhh natural. Yup we're gettin' close.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:40 PM
fishpro fishpro is offline
 
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Originally Posted by The Elkster View Post
IMO the upper lake is ideal for a multi species management system. Forget this "natural" crud with the cutties and bulls. The lakes are manmade reservoirs that would be nothing but a puddle without human intervention to begin with. Cutties and Bulls can stay. Make them C&R or any other size/slot limit and leave the rainbow as catch and keep with some yearly stocking. Is there a problem with having everyone content? Oh did I mention the mysis shrimp are also non-native introductions...ahhhhh natural. Yup we're gettin' close.
If we could do that it would be great, unfortunately it would be extremely difficult to establish a fishery where cutts were protected and the rainbows weren't. The simple reason for this is that a very high number of fishermen cannot tell the difference between the two, so it would be hard to control.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:16 PM
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chubbdarter chubbdarter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I am not sure we are agreeing or not agreeing. I strongly believe that "+20lb RBT or BT" are trophies. All I said is a 20 inch (as in inches long...not lbs) is NOT a trophy. Just a nice size trout to catch versus a 12 inch trout.

There seems to be a vocal group on this thread that is trying to equate letting the trout grow 2 extra years before harvest as a trophy fishery. After 2 years...thereafter we would see a yearly group of rainbows reaching 20 inches.

I would say rainbows over 10 lbs would start being called trophies...stocked or otherwise. That would put them at 28 - 34 inches long here I suspect and that is not what is proposed.

Are we in agreement or...please explain your point further. We can share notes...

Thanks a bunch

Sun
a 10lb bow is a trophy only with a disclaimer eg. a 10lb bow from the bow river.....but a 10lb bow is hardly reconized as a trophy as a general sizing of the species...personally maybe.

my general point is
making new regs that wont be enforced is a complete waste of cash
if the government needs more cash to stock fish...close the hotel crack in downtown calgary and stock more. try that and see how many special social groups scream. groups you say dont exsist.

im sorry but i get alittle tired of hitler type rules that neglect the general public. i fish trophy rainbow and bulltrout from thanksgiving to the month of May. im the voice of the old guy possibly a veteran or the little girl or boy scout who needs lakes like this to fullflll their fishing happiness. if it comes down to defending them over grown men who want a 20 inch rainbow......well you know where i stand.
never mind if a 20 inch fish has more meat....the kid could care less.
police lake is prime example....

thanks for listening
im done with this thread
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  #28  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:35 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Well I tried to find a stocked lake where kids could go and keep a trout close to Calgary, but all I could find was:
Airdrie pond, Allen Bill, Chain lakes, Crossfield pond, Dewitts pond, Grotto Mtn pond, Champion lakes, Mclean pond, Sibbald pond, Mt Lorrette pond, Severn Res., and all the alpine lakes in K-country.
Then I tried to find a spot where spoiled adult men wanted to catch a fish over 12"...only found a couple of lakes
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  #29  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:43 PM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
a 10lb bow is a trophy only with a disclaimer eg. a 10lb bow from the bow river.....but a 10lb bow is hardly reconized as a trophy as a general sizing of the species...personally maybe.

my general point is
making new regs that wont be enforced is a complete waste of cash
if the government needs more cash to stock fish...close the hotel crack in downtown calgary and stock more. try that and see how many special social groups scream. groups you say dont exsist.

im sorry but i get alittle tired of hitler type rules that neglect the general public. i fish trophy rainbow and bulltrout from thanksgiving to the month of May. im the voice of the old guy possibly a veteran or the little girl or boy scout who needs lakes like this to fullflll their fishing happiness. if it comes down to defending them over grown men who want a 20 inch rainbow......well you know where i stand.
never mind if a 20 inch fish has more meat....the kid could care less.
police lake is prime example....

thanks for listening
im done with this thread
I now understand where you are coming from. Have you considered however that what you are saying is that you are sticking up for these people that just want to catch fish. They can still catch fish and probably with higher catch rates...in fact in two years they can harvest larger fish. No one is stopping anyone from fishing. No one is stopping harvest. I guess from a comparison perspective...do you really see value in stocking 4 inch rainbows and then having a 10 fish limit at 4 inches each? Is that a good fishery? This concept is the same thing...rather than 12 inch trout...20 inch trout are more exciting if the catch rates are good. I hardly think it is fair to call this type of reg a "hitler" rule. That is furthest apart bad comparison as the universe allows.

History has proven after Bullshead Lake that if you take a 12 inch put and take stock lake and make it a 20 inch put and take stock lake that people actually love it. Change can put off some people but if one sits back and truly understands the concept and the benefit you realize you are better off. Sometimes people say no without realizing they are hurting themselves.

As for enforcement...that is no reason to no have proper regulations to manage the fishery. Most people abid by the rules. Some don't. Report a poacher helps. Fish cops also due check. I agree...more enforcement would not hurt. In fact the new regs were followed in Bullshead and enforcement did occur.

You are also getting way off target switching from stocking issues and size limits to social issues with drug problems in downtown Calgary.

In the end... at least you and I agree this new rule is not to create a "trophy lake" as you clearly state a 20 inch rainbow is no trophy and neither is a 10 lber.

Thanks for joining the topic. It is always fun debating with someone as passionate on the topic as yourself.

Merry Christmas everyone...

Sun
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  #30  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:12 PM
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chubbdarter chubbdarter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I now understand where you are coming from. Have you considered however that what you are saying is that you are sticking up for these people that just want to catch fish. They can still catch fish and probably with higher catch rates...in fact in two years they can harvest larger fish. No one is stopping anyone from fishing. No one is stopping harvest. I guess from a comparison perspective...do you really see value in stocking 4 inch rainbows and then having a 10 fish limit at 4 inches each? Is that a good fishery? This concept is the same thing...rather than 12 inch trout...20 inch trout are more exciting if the catch rates are good. I hardly think it is fair to call this type of reg a "hitler" rule. That is furthest apart bad comparison as the universe allows.

History has proven after Bullshead Lake that if you take a 12 inch put and take stock lake and make it a 20 inch put and take stock lake that people actually love it. Change can put off some people but if one sits back and truly understands the concept and the benefit you realize you are better off. Sometimes people say no without realizing they are hurting themselves.

As for enforcement...that is no reason to no have proper regulations to manage the fishery. Most people abid by the rules. Some don't. Report a poacher helps. Fish cops also due check. I agree...more enforcement would not hurt. In fact the new regs were followed in Bullshead and enforcement did occur.

You are also getting way off target switching from stocking issues and size limits to social issues with drug problems in downtown Calgary.

In the end... at least you and I agree this new rule is not to create a "trophy lake" as you clearly state a 20 inch rainbow is no trophy and neither is a 10 lber.

Thanks for joining the topic. It is always fun debating with someone as passionate on the topic as yourself.

Merry Christmas everyone...

Sun
okay i lyed..but this will be my last post..lmfao.
so your saying the little girl will have as much success catching a 20 inch older fish as a stocker put and taker? i repeat it doesnt matter to them.

and the hotel crack is aprime example of a service provided to a small group who whinned the loudest....for fawksakes we have veterans going hungry. this country has lost priorities. what makes you smile more....a grown capable man with a 20 inch trout or a little kid grinning from ear to ear with a 9inch fish.
simply put let a few crack heads die!!!!! feed the veterans and let a kid catch fish.......priorities!!!!!!!!!!

its like a donkey punch in the dark....no studies on water or bulltrout predation.

all i ask is just leave the few places a family , child and elderly or handicapped person can catch and harvest a clean mtn. trout. in a easily accessed lake. no matter the size!!! You want 20 inch fish go somewhere else.....the country is teaming with 20 inch fish.
thanks
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