Archery Shot Question

TreeGuy · #1 11-20-2007, 08:28 PM

My buddy took a shot at a nice mulie 3x3 from his tree stand this evening from about 6 yards and missed cleanly. "

" , you say. The deer was almost perfectly beneath his stand. The shot (about 20' vertical to impact) was made at about as close to a 90 degree angle as they come. Where would you aim? Thanks!

Tree

LongDraw · #2 11-20-2007, 08:33 PM

If the shot was 6 yards- line of sight out of a treestand he probably shot UNDER the deer. If he had a 40 yard pin that is what he should have used. I remember going in a 3-d shoot and they had a gopher target 5 yards out of a stand and most missed it.

Reading your description of the shot the deer was directly under the stand, so maybe a 2 yard shot from the base of the tree to the deer?

BTW- This changes quickly- at 7-8 yards is where you would want to use your 20 yard pin, out to 20 yards. This has to do with the distance between your sight and the arrow.

catnthehat · #3 11-20-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

My buddy took a shot at a nice mulie 3x3 from his tree stand this evening from about 6 yards and missed cleanly. "

" , you say. The deer was almost perfectly beneath his stand. The shot (about 20' vertical to impact) was made at about as close to a 90 degree angle as they come. Where would you aim? Thanks!

Tree

I wouldn't, i'd try to wait till the deer gave me a bit more of an angle by moving out a tad more..
Cat

BigRackLover · #4 11-20-2007, 08:46 PM

I would have put my 20/25 yard pin right on the spine. I missed the exact same shot last year.

wookie · #5 11-20-2007, 08:48 PM

6 yards out from a 20 foot high stand is not darn near vertical. 6 yards is 18 feet. Getting near a 45 degree angle. Anyways, I would guess that he shot under the deer.

For a six yard horizontal measurement shot, not line of sight, I would aim for about 35 yards, but would visualize the exit point and aim accordingly as even a 45 degree shot is quite steep and I would not like to clip the near side lung and go under the far side lung.

It happens.

TreeGuy · #6 11-20-2007, 08:52 PM

The deer was 1 yard from the trunk of the tree. The stand is about 25' up.

Tree

Bushmaster · #7 11-20-2007, 08:55 PM

Poor shot choice.

mikey11 · #8 11-20-2007, 08:56 PM

I've missed a shot like that before.
but a friend of mine dropped a moose directly under his stand
he said he was aiming for the spine!!
the bull ran 20 yards then expired

LongDraw · #9 11-20-2007, 08:56 PM

Tree,

Shoot a deer 3-d target from one yard away, you could use any pin and still hit the center of the vitals.

I have missed similar gimme' shots- it happens, if you bowhunt its not if, it's when!

LongDraw · #10 11-20-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushmaster

Poor shot choice.

Why do you say this??

I would prefer a nice 10 yard shot over this, but if you have a relaxed deer one yard from your tree, and your foot is not in the path of the arrow I would shoot!

mikey11 · #11 11-20-2007, 09:07 PM

Exactly LongDraw
Even when the moon and stars align you need the luck for
and animal to walk close enough for a clean shot!!!

#12 11-20-2007, 09:07 PM

I will go against everyone else's choice and I would aim low, about 6 inches.

russ · #13 11-20-2007, 09:12 PM

Depends on the parallax of the bow (distance from mid peep to mid arrow). Most people for this shot it's somewhere around 35-40 yd pin for 5 yds. A target 2 yds away with my target set up would require a 90 yd. pin.

BigRackLover · #14 11-20-2007, 09:14 PM

Lets not forget that everyone's bow/arrows could be set up / tuned differently. The best idea is to practice the situation with the same gear / arrows / bow you'd be using while hunting.

LongDraw · #15 11-20-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700TI

I will go against everyone else's choice and I would aim low, about 6 inches.

You would shoot 6" under the deer.

TreeGuy · #16 11-20-2007, 09:24 PM

700, my gut goes with your opinion, but now I'm confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

Depends on the parallax of the bow (distance from mid peep to mid arrow). Most people for this shot it's somewhere around 35-40 yd pin for 5 yds. A target 2 yds away with my target set up would require a 90 yd. pin.

Russ, can you dumb that down a bit? I would have thought that with a purely horizontal shot, the arrow would be launched on an 'upward' trajectory upon release, just like a bullet. Therefore, I would instinctually shoot with my 20 yard pin (my buddy uses a cross hairs sight set for 25 yards) about a foot 'below' my intended point of impact.

You guys are saying that using anywhere from your 40-90 yard pin is the best choice.

Admittedly, we are new to the tree stand thing, and installed them on a whim during the season and have never practiced that shot. Totally our fault. Can you explain WHY you need the longer range pins a bit better?

Tree

Stinky Coyote · #17 11-20-2007, 09:33 PM

I shot my whitetail buck that way last year...only about 15' feet to bottom of my stand and he was maybe 3 yrds from tree i was in...2 yrd shot? I held low about 2-3"...surprisingly they are as wide as they are deep when your right above them so when i held low i meant i held my 20 yrd pin about 2-3" more to the inside edge of him to hit where i want and i watched that arrow dissappear right where i visualized it would. It exited under his armpit on the other side and entrance was about 4" this side of spine. He did a 90-100 yrd runner before piling up. I felt great about the shot. Arrow was sticking 6" into ground and i was still sitting while i shot...the bow string was down in between my legs with elbow to the sky on that one.

20 yrd pin, aim about 2-3" low on that shot.

I gots lotsa pics but none on my online account except this one but have lots of the entrance/exit...this is only one i can show for now and pretty sure my online is full up so if must do then i could post pics but if no one calls me out i won't go through the hassle.

Exit is under the armpit of the side showing on that pic fyi.

russ · #18 11-20-2007, 09:36 PM

Well Tree, my peep is 4.5" above my arrow @ full draw. So if I use my 20 yd pin on a 2 yd target, I'm going to be about 4" low, if not more. So there's a good probability that i will miss the deer clean. The arrow must rise and drop through the line of sight 2x on a 20 yd shot. @ 2 yds it's not even close to the first crossing.

And to really get the argument / err sorry lively discussion going, your arrow is falling the moment it leaves the bow. The only reason it goes up to begin with is because I was pointing the arrow up on launch to begin with. (exterior ballistics is so much fun

)

russ · #19 11-20-2007, 09:44 PM

The x's represent the path of the arrow in flight & I'm guessing the 1st crossing of LOS is @ 8 yds. The arrow (projectile) will always cross LOS 2x EXCEPT when the target is extremely close. Then, the LOS & point of impact will need to be the same in order to hit where you're aiming.
..............................................x
.................................x................ ......x
...............8yds......x........................ ...........x............20 yds
>>>>-----------X----line of sight-------------------X------------->
..........x....................................... ..................................x

#20 11-20-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700TI

I will go against everyone else's choice and I would aim low, about 6 inches.

I will try to explain;
When you sight in you are at level. So gravity has a large effect on your arrow. When you shoot almost straight down, gravity has very little effect on your arrow. (no arc) so your point of impact will be higher then on the level.

Stinky Coyote · #21 11-20-2007, 09:55 PM

Way back when i started researching all this archery stuff that rule of thumb stuck in my head...5 yrs later i used it and by golly she worked out like it was supposed too. I say you get yourself in a tree (your buddy too

) and giver a whirl...can't build the confidence any better than actually doing it. Then again i might just go on instinct for half the deer i shoot? Its a quicky rule of thumb for the real close shots...not picking specific yardages or angles etc. but i like things simple so they are easy to remember and from what i remember thats the rule i stuck in the memory bank and chucked the rest...good thing too imo. I can see some pics are going to have to be uploaded for further analysis.

p.s. the only thing i care about regarding these 'rules of thumb' is hunting so the rules of thumb i keep don't get too scientific down to the exact angle/yard etc....as long as it gets the deer on the ground type of 'rule of thumb' and that one is close enough to do it for those close shots...but....maybe i'm cold trippin too?

LongDraw · #22 11-20-2007, 09:59 PM

Good explanation Russ,

Although at these distances (0-7 yards) you will still pin the vitals using any pin (20 through 60) on a deer sized vitals, approx 8" circle.

russ · #23 11-20-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700TI

I will try to explain;
When you sight in you are at level. So gravity has a large effect on your arrow. When you shoot almost straight down, gravity has very little effect on your arrow. (no arc) so your point of impact will be higher then on the level.

I think your point actually applies on all uphill and downhill shots. The only reason I picked 2 yds is because I have data for it and I've used it successfully.

LongDraw · #24 11-20-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700TI

I will try to explain;
When you sight in you are at level. So gravity has a large effect on your arrow. When you shoot almost straight down, gravity has very little effect on your arrow. (no arc) so your point of impact will be higher then on the level.

You are correct, however your peep and sight are above the arrow, this is why you would have to raise your bow and use your 40 yard pin to compensate for this.

bowhuntercam · #25 11-20-2007, 10:06 PM

IMO that is poor shot selection. The site on a bow sits 4-6 inches above your arrow, at that close distance your arrow has not risen above your site pin or site line.

Stinky Coyote · #26 11-20-2007, 10:07 PM

Something in my gut tells me if i use 60 yrd pin on my shot i'd have lost my deer or completely missed but more likely gave him a haircut on the far side? Honest...i held my 20 'low' about 2-3" max and the arrow went where i wanted it too...i mean exactly where i wanted it too...that line through the vitals i was envisioning....heard too many that use their 20 as point of aim and try and hit where i hit but end up spining them...thats why the 2-3" low rule for those shots. Its out there somewhere...i know my memory isn't that bad...i think?

We'll get to the bottom of this soon Tree...

Stinky Coyote · #27 11-20-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongDraw

You are correct, however your peep and sight are above the arrow, this is why you would have to raise your bow and use your 40 yard pin to compensate for this.

Yall have me thinking...i know when i've got a gopher at 5-10 yrds with the .22 zero'd around 35 yrds...i gotta hold high..bout an 1" high at 5 yrds and 1/2" at 10 yrds...sounds like same thing?

Dunno why that rule of thumb is stuck in my head though and why it worked? I should have shot way way under my deer by that reasoning?

Something to do with arrow rises that couple inches on the way to 20 yrds.....at 20 yrds its already on the downslope.....so our first pin (20 yrd for most guys) isn't actually the high point of the arrow...somewhere in between.....but for the most part...for hunting situations...that rule of thumb seemed to be the only thing that stayed with me for those close shots?

russ · #28 11-20-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Yall have me thinking...i know when i've got a gopher at 5-10 yrds with the .22 zero'd around 35 yrds...i gotta hold high..bout an 1" high at 5 yrds and 1/2" at 10 yrds...sounds like same thing?

That's because it is the same thing.

Stinky Coyote · #29 11-20-2007, 10:25 PM

okay, csi these pics for me...

the pic of the treestand shows the bow on the ground..hopefully it will show up but the blood and arrow are just up and left of the bow...if you draw a straight line between the two trees the arrow/blood is essentially right on that line and just about dead in the middle of it too...

deer walked in from left side of the treestand pic, between toe of left foot and the near tree and stopped when heard my motion from the draw (as planned...otherwise a 'waah' was just about to happen)

not sure why i took all those csi pics...to email buddies mostly but guess they can come in handy here...

oh yeah...the paint mixing stick in the hole?...its actually in the exit hole also...showing the exact angle...sorry...was a couple beers on empty stomach and muckin around

Stinky Coyote · #30 11-20-2007, 10:28 PM

have to catch up on this one tomorrow...nighty nighty

but before i got...i pretty much held 20 yrd on inside edge of fur...well not quite because the angle of that pic could only show the angle i saw if it was inline with the paint mixer..that arrow hit a good 2-3" higher than i aimed the 20...as i thought it should?