Grand Slam

Since the Grand Slam Club sued FNAWS over the use of the term Grand Slam, they have basically become the official keeper of Grand Slam acheivements. Well it seems new ground was broken this year when a ram from a fenced operation in Saskatchewan was permitted to be entered as part of a Grand Slam. While the ethics of hunting behind fences can be argued to death and I'm not really interested in going down that road but what does everyone think about all the grief that the Grand Slam Club caused FNAWS and now that have exclusive use of the term Grand Slam, they are allowing high fence rams? I could care less if they had a seperate category or whatever but the term Grand Slam has always meant more to me than shooting fenced rams but now that Grand Slam owns the term, I guess they can use it however they wish. It's a sad day IMHO. Here's a letter that I recently received from a friend:

Just wanted to let you all know that in the winter 2011 edition of Grand Slam that entry #1597 was completed with a PET and SHOOT Alberta/Saskatchewan bighorn. I emailed Dennis Campbell regarding this, with of course no reply, I guess when times are tough you will allow anybody in to your organization despite your morals or ethics. This goes against everything that is sheep hunting in my opinion, and is truly appalling. I do not see a granola bar in the photograph but this douche bag from Mexico should be ashamed! Not a club I want to support. A grand slam should be put on a pedestal for everything it is about, including the highest achievement, in my mind, possible. To accept a penned animal into the holy grail of hunting is horrid. Just saying!

[Ryry4]

That is truly a sad day in hunting. That whole law suite fiasco did absolutely nothing for hunting and conservation. WSF has my full support, Grand Slam Club has none.

[Duk Dog]

I had noticed that in the recent GSCO magazine and honestly had to take a double take that they had actually included a BH ram from a penned hunt. I couldn't recall any mountains near Lloydminster. I don't know all the details of the GSCO and WSF lawsuit but it was sure a huge waste of time, resources, and money.

[Duk Dog]

Actually if you look in the front of the GSCO magazine it states:

"The purposes and objectives of Grand Slam Club/Ovis are to:"

And in that list it states:

"Encourage the use of legally issued permits, tags, and/or licenses of wild mountain sheep, goats and other North American big game."

They missed the mark on that one.

I can guarantee I'll never have a Grand Slam. I definitely wouldn't enter my sheep with this club. Hopefully many current Grand Slammers ask that their listing be removed.

[huntfishtrap]

Well most certainly the lawsuit was a great waste of time and conservation dollars. It is sure hard to believe this particular ram was allowed to be entered if in fact the GSCO knew or even determined after the ram was from a pet farm. I guess there should be an examination of the requirements for entry, if in fact they even exist. I expect there will be quite a big blow up over this one!

[walking buffalo]

I have zero respect for the GSC. Their actions are disgusting, from the lawsuit to the promotion of canned sheep hunts.

Can't resist saying this here. Bill 11, Ariculture's Livestock Industry Diversification Amendment Act, will allow the expansion of permits for Bighorn and Thinhorn sheep to be farm raised in Alberta.... this is one of the "New Market" opportunities they are seeking.

[SLH]

Hence the trouble with all records regarding wildlife!

I hunt for trophy animals with a minor in meat hunting. My personal desires for trophies are my own and I don’t feel the need to publicize or brag of anything I’ve harvested, but somewhere back in our primordial past a lot of people define their worth by their hunting prowess. Unfortunately I feel the path of recording and popularizing trophy hunting as a competition is predictable and evolving into just what you have here today and not only for sheep.

This natural progression will lead any number of people to the next logical step where money and morally questionable conduct will get them into that company of record holders. In my view it is a sad reality that is entrenching itself with every advertisement in every magazine with every new publication of the B & C and every new category of bigger and better.

So what is the answer? To me the simple and honourable answer is that FNAWS if they are truly wanting of being friends of Wild Sheep and Sheep habitat preservation needs to wash there hands of the record books. Their contributions are infinitely more important to all sheep hunters and hunters in general than any given individuals accomplishments on a list in a book. Honour the animal, score it if you wish but have no reference of the hunter. If their goals are simple and honourable they will have the respect of the community. Those that want to make this into a circus side show will be seen by others as just that.

My initial interpretation of the record books was that they honoured the animal but with age comes cynicism and things like this make me realize more and more that the record books have a dark effect on many people. The desire to belong to exclusive clubs eventually diminishes the club to the point to which we have here. The sooner those that want to be on pedestals are shown to be the problem with our hunting heritage the better off we will all be.

[Huntnut]

What the FNAWS has done for the betterment of hunters and hunting the Grand Slam has just done the complete opposite.

SLH, this has zero to do with the records books. It all revolves around the term Grand Slam and how it relates to sheep hunting.

[Rockymtnx]

Wow that is pretty SAD!
I think I may express my concerns in a quick email to Dennis Campbell on thier recent change of "Grand Slam" entries.


I see they are really standing behind thier Mission Satetment!
From the Grand Slam Ovis website....

•Continue to be the established documentation and records-keeping organization for legally-taken Grand Slams of North American wild mountain sheep, Ovis World Slams of wild sheep of the world, and Capra World Slams of wild goats of the world.

•Encourage the use of legally issued permits, tags, and/or licenses for the hunting of wild mountain sheep and goats.

•Inform and educate people of the world about wild mountain sheep and goats.

•Use financial resources received from membership dues, donations, or fund-raising events to benefit, directly or indirectly, wild mountain sheep and goats by contributing these funds to/through established state, provincial, federal, or governmental game and wildlife agencies or other non-profit wildlife conservation organizations.

With nearly 5,000 members worldwide, Grand Slam Club/Ovis comprises a large percentage of the people interested in wild sheep and goat hunting and conservation. Click here to be a part of our effort!

Maybe they are working on trademarking the term "wild" now and it will be able to mean in a pen too....ugh

[CNR]

Put your 2 cents into the contact Grand slam / Orvis. I just did!!!

I see your club now enters penned animals into books. I'm very disappointed that your morals and ethics have been swayed into allowing this. I have always wanted to accomplish the grand slam but it now disgusts me. Congradulations with your accomplishments in ruining a long regarded coined phrase.

[huntfishtrap]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I can guarantee I'll never have a Grand Slam. I definitely wouldn't enter my sheep with this club. Hopefully many current Grand Slammers ask that their listing be removed.

I haven't entered ANY of my sheep with ANY "club", whatever they wish to call it. What for...I don't need my name in a book for self gratification. I enjoy looking at them and remembering the hunt. It is too bad though that those who choose to enter have to be lumped in with non fair chase kills.

[TreeGuy]

Two questions.

First. Why is it ok for SCI to include penned animals in their records and not GS/O?

Second. Why not just copyright a new phrase? Something like 'Ram Slam'.

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Two questions.

First. Why is it ok for SCI to include penned animals in their records and not GS/O?

Second. Why not just copyright a new phrase? Something like 'Ram Slam'.

SCI has a seperate category for estate game. I've got no issues with the pen slam of sheep but it goes against everything the term Grand Slam stood for..

Lots of new phrases have been tried but Grand Slam is the original and the one in common use.

[Deer Hunter]

Why does the term mean anything? Do you go around bragging about a term to people? The only person you need to impress is yourself. If shooting behind a fence makes you happy then fine. Record books, copyright terms; hunting is about shooting spikers, ducks or four sheep. Or nothing.

Why is sheep hunting always have so much controversy?

[ishootbambi]

im pretty sure everyone is aware of my feelings on shoot farms.

as for a supposed conservation group wasting time and money over something so utterly stoooooooopid as who is allowed to use a word....especially when they are arguing with another conservation group.....i find it deplorable. in my opinion, any hunter with a functioning peanut between his ears oughta boycott anything to do with them fools. to me it shows pretty clear that chest puffing is more important to them than doing what is good for wildlife.

[Pathfinder76]

Dennis Campbell has zero respect from me since the whole "Grand Slam" debacle started. No hunter or sportsman that calls themselves a hunter ought to be in any way shape or form associated with this guy.

[alpineguy]

Grand Slam, who cares!! It's just a money thing anyways. The average 'Joe Hunter' could never afford it. Without buying at least 1 or 2 of the the hunts it is virtually impossible to achieve. IMO it has nothing to do with your ability to hunt and everything to do with money. So what is the achievement?
Personally I think any book animal harvested with a guide should be recorded as a co-hunter harvest and the guides name should be listed along with the tag owner.
I am not against outfitting, just don't agree that an animal harvested under the instruction and guidance of another should be allowed to register a trophy under only their name.
The Grand Slam of sheep and many other records are a joke IMO simply due to the fact that many are payed for hunts.

[Rackmastr]

I think this post re-affirms why I have never spent money with Grand Slam and why I most likely never will. I'm happy spending my money and giving my support to WSF and this just firms up that decision even more....

[cowboyhunter]

Hunting rams around Cadomin isn't much different!

Originally Posted by alpineguy

Grand Slam, who cares!! It's just a money thing anyways. The average 'Joe Hunter' could never afford it.

I'm sure Gunslinger might disagree with you. From what I know of Pat he's just an average hard working "Joe" that had a dream. All comes down to priorities.

If you lived in BC, and got lucky in the draws, a totally unguided grand slam would be very possible.

There are really good guides and there are really bad guides and all types in between. I'm sure some guided hunts the hunter just deserves an assist....in other cases I'm sure the guide barely rates one. On average it's two hunters working together....one with a guide's licence and one with a hunting licence. At least that's been my experience. I really see no need to put anyone's accomplishments down. I know it seems a shame to miss an opportunity to bash a fellow hunter but weren't we talking about the Grand Slam club anyhow?

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by chuck

Dennis Campbell has zero respect from me since the whole "Grand Slam" debacle started. No hunter or sportsman that calls themselves a hunter ought to be in any way shape or form associated with this guy.

Ok i will bite. I am a hunter and a sportsman and i am involved in the grand slam club for a number of years now. I know dennis personnally and all the guys involved that run the club.

I am deeply involved in the super slam also, i sit here with 23 of the north american 29 and am trying to achieve this at a very young age, every animal is documented with grand slam.

I attend every convention in las vegas and have a awsome time, they do a great job on this and are very personable to me and my wife.

TJ after putting this post up on here and saying what your saying i hope your right about this, because if your post is correct i am going to be very disappointed as i will not be involved in anything they do if thats the case, everything will be cancelled and i will not be involved at all. I am still in disbeleif in this till i talk to seth personally first thing monday morning.

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by alpineguy

Grand Slam, who cares!! It's just a money thing anyways. The average 'Joe Hunter' could never afford it. Without buying at least 1 or 2 of the the hunts it is virtually impossible to achieve. IMO it has nothing to do with your ability to hunt and everything to do with money. So what is the achievement?
Personally I think any book animal harvested with a guide should be recorded as a co-hunter harvest and the guides name should be listed along with the tag owner.
I am not against outfitting, just don't agree that an animal harvested under the instruction and guidance of another should be allowed to register a trophy under only their name.
The Grand Slam of sheep and many other records are a joke IMO simply due to the fact that many are payed for hunts.

Alpine im guessing you will look at your post later and change your mind, you actually have to buy or go on outfitted at least 14 hunts, depending on which province you live in, bc or alberta.
I work on a drilling rig but love to hunt, this is achievable by anyone that wants to do it.

Originally Posted by gunslinger

TJ after putting this post up on here and saying what your saying i hope your right about this, because if your post is correct i am going to be very disappointed as i will not be involved in anything they do if thats the case, everything will be cancelled and i will not be involved at all. I am still in disbeleif in this till i talk to seth personally first thing monday morning.

I'd be the first to apologize if it wasn't Pat but several people have confirmed it. Let us know what you find out.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Ok i will bite. I am a hunter and a sportsman and i am involved in the grand slam club for a number of years now. I know dennis personnally and all the guys involved that run the club.

I am deeply involved in the super slam also, i sit here with 23 of the north american 29 and am trying to achieve this at a very young age, every animal is documented with grand slam.

I attend every convention in las vegas and have a awsome time, they do a great job on this and are very personable to me and my wife.

TJ after putting this post up on here and saying what your saying i hope your right about this, because if your post is correct i am going to be very disappointed as i will not be involved in anything they do if thats the case, everything will be cancelled and i will not be involved at all. I am still in disbeleif in this till i talk to seth personally first thing monday morning.

Look before you leap.

[alpineguy]

Hey Gunslinger, I am certainly not trying to disrespect you but what I said is the way I feel. Yes there are many good hunters that go on guided hunts (and I am quite sure you are one of them) but there are alot of hunters that wouldn't have a hope in H*ll of taking an animal along with field dressing and transporting (backpack or horse pack) back to camp. Outfitters and guides provide a valuable service for those who can afford it.

Sheephunter, maybe in your world most people can afford guided hunts but in the real world it is not so. Working on a rig provides an income far above what the average guy makes in town running a fork lift or driving a truck. Guided hunts are more about income than priorities. I know many professionals in Calgary and other cities that make good incomes but with the house, kids, vehicles etc., couldn't lay down the cash for a $15K or $20K hunt.

Again, outfitters provide a great service, but it is for those who can afford it and desire that style of hunt.
I would love to go on a Dall sheep hunt but I would have to go through an outfitter and FOR ME that would greatly diminish the accomplishment (provided I was successful).

Just my opinion!!

[lannie]

"Guided hunts are more about income than priorities."

I do not agree on this. If it is important to someone, it becomes a priority.
Many people dream about a guided hunt and save for it.

[ruger300]

Originally Posted by lannie

"Guided hunts are more about income than priorities."

I do not agree on this. If it is important to someone, it becomes a priority.
Many people dream about a guided hunt and save for it.

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