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Old 05-29-2011, 02:27 AM
BeeGuy BeeGuy is offline
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Smile New member and a note on poaching

Howdy folks!

Well, I'm new around here, both this forum and the Calgary area. I just left Toronto where I was in grad school researching native bees. I've spent many years living/working/researching in BC(forestry, biodiversity surveying), and a couple in AB, but never out of Calgary. Anyways, I love fishing.

So far I've been out to Barrier Lake, Ghost Lake, and Lake Minnewanka with varied results, some great, some with only great views. I hit up Goat Pond a couple weeks ago without any success as well as the channel there. Also spent a couple hours at the Gap Lk/Bow Rvr spot north of Exshaw. Nice spot.

So, I've been using the great reference info on this board to figure out what species are where, driving times, etc etc and decided to finally register. Reading the recent posts I immediately noticed all the commentary on poaching. Two things were evident: 1) the get'm boys attitude, and 2) the attempts at tongue in cheek racism.

Now, I think that many would agree that neither of these attitudes are particularly useful, beyond satisfying ones own ego.

I'd like to note that numerous fish species and stocks in Alberta, and across Canada have been seriously threatened or depleted (read extirpated) without the aid of people of Asian decent, newly immigrated eastern European decent, or any other. This is the proud legacy of the whiteman. Don't forget what we are doing to the Athabasca system right now. Taking a couple hammerheads home for ma a thousand times pales in comparison.

It is inappropriate to yell at any fisherman. Authority is reserved for bonded Peace Officers. Confronting people is a mistake. It can escalate and lead to....many things including legal problems. Note that what you see from afar is not always the case, and status cards aren't always worn on foreheads.

Always be nice. If you think someone is breaking the regulations, approach them in a non-confrontational manner. Ask them how there day has gone. Ask them if they know the regulations. If they are unsure, and probably the majority are unsure (the reg's are 100pages), tell them what the regulations are. Species, slot limits, retention and gear/bait. If you feel they are still breaking the rules call RAP or the cops. Fair enough.

Chances are, if you think someone is poaching, you are already ****ed-off, and will approach them as such. This is true whether you bite your tongue initially or not. Hell, I've caught some steaming stink eye from flyfisherman,....for spin-fishing.


Don't forget the time you accidentally let a fish spoil. Don't forget the time you forgot that trout in the freezer for 18mos and it was inedible.

Don't forget the time you shot a sparrow with a bb gun when you were 13.
Know what I'm sayin?

And for those repeat offenders (beige Toyota minivan), let us hope they face prosecution if the facts support it.

End rant.

Hope to meet y'all on the water. I'll be a bearded white-dude, hucking big spoons from shore with a grin.

Cheers,

LB
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:36 AM
deanmc deanmc is offline
 
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Hello BeeGuy. Sounds like great advice.





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Old 05-29-2011, 02:41 AM
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so you are saying because whiteman is possibly polluting athabasca river it is ok for asian to keep hammerhandle pike?

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Old 05-29-2011, 02:55 AM
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Hello BeeGuy. Sounds like great advice.





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Old 05-29-2011, 03:36 AM
BeeGuy BeeGuy is offline
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Haha, no, I don't think anyone should be fishing outside the reg's. The example you mentioned was intended to give perspective. Proximate and ultimate.

Proximate: 2 guys killin hammerhandles.

Ultimate: Industry destroying an entire watershed.

Neither situation is good or ethical, but it is good to keep things in perspective. No single individual is reducing the quality of sport fisheries. It is our impact as a group that has the greatest impact and we all contribute to that.

Deanmc: Shields at full!

Cheers
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:13 AM
splake0 splake0 is offline
 
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Welcome to the forum.

Bee guy, I agree with your comments
Very well said.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:31 AM
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Welcome.

This is a fishing forum that has a high percentage of people who are passionate about fishing. I understand that you may be trying to prevent possible confrontation between poachers and passionate fisherman. The right to buy a fishing license also carries the responsibility to read the regulations. A duty to read the regulations. Mistakes and misunderstandings will happen, which are probably best handled by polite education at the scene as you described. Total disregard for the regulations will not be changed by polite conversation. Sometimes the difference cannot be determined without conversation.

Ontario where you studied has more lakes and rivers than here in AB. So does B.C. Fishing pressure is more concentrated on the few lakes we have than those provinces. People from there may think that we are crazy for driving sometimes over 2 hrs to go for a regular day of fishing. When people from here come across total disregard for fishing regulations, its not hard to imagine the results if allowed to continue.

Attitudes of catch as many as you can have taken years to change to catch and release.

The regulations are to help protect, preserve and improve the fishing here. Regulations alone will not accomplish that. I don't think anybody on here goes out at the start of the day with a John Wayne attitude of "lets catch poachers", they go to get fish on the end of their line.

Helping to prevent poaching is just as important as the regulations themselves.
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:38 AM
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BeeGuy, thanks for your input. I agree 100%.
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:49 AM
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"entire Athabasca watershed"?...are you sure you were in TO studying bees ..or anti-oilsands propoganda based on unsubstantiated claims???
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:56 AM
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"entire Athabasca watershed"?...are you sure you were in TO studying bees ..or anti-oilsands propoganda based on unsubstantiated claims???
Big +1. Exactly what i was thinking.

Last edited by cranky; 05-29-2011 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:03 AM
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Welcome Beeguy! always nice to have a new member join.

If your comments about poaching while fishing are in anyway directed towards me and the incident I had the other day with some poachers at the lake I frequent, I stand by my actions 100%.......as would most members of this forum.

The persons that I had a chat with the other day are not strangers to the area and quite often "get away" with things when others turn the blind eye. There was only one of me and 3 of them and they knew they were doing wrong because they packed up and left.......they didn't even try to defend their actions because the KNEW they were in the wrong.....I asked the guy how big 63 cms was and buy his approximation with his hands he knew how big they were supposed to be yet they had 3 dead fish under that size on shore.

Here are the pics I took......





When I spoke with the F&W Officer I did not leave out any details and he THANKED me for collecting the information and having a chat with the guys keeping under sized fish. He told me they are severely understaffed in the area and that they need other sportsman to be diligent.

As for the race thing related to this incident you will notice I did not mention it but was asked about it and I told the truth about my particular observations........we will leave it at that.

Sometimes enough is enough.......end rant.

You will also read another post in which 10 days before the season I saw some people fishing in the same area I was the other day. I pulled in and politely told them that fishing was not open for another 10 days They reeled in their lines and said "Thanks for letting us know! we had no idea!" and we went our separate ways.

I think different circumstance call for different measures. I am also educated and originally wanted to work in Fish and Wildlife, but I found a new passion in the Environment and I studied and graduated from an Environmental Monitoring and Enforcement Program here in Alberta. So to let you know I have no "John Wayne" attitude but I have a passion for the resources in this great province I was born in.

Lefty
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:05 AM
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nice read thanks for your input and welcome
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:08 AM
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shooting a sparrow is legal and letting a fish get freezer burnt I don't think is willfully wasting fish . Anyways welcome to the forum , I agree with avoiding confrontation , well mostly
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:05 AM
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Kokanee9,

Your post above pretty much says it all! Excellent points!

Lefty
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:14 AM
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Agreed 500% man. Welcome to the forum.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Kokanee9,

Your post above pretty much says it all! Excellent points!

Lefty
Thank you.
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:44 PM
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Beeguy- welcome to the forum. I have to say I have had the same feelings you expressed quite thoughtfully in your post, as I also have little experience fishing Alberta water. What I have come to better understand is the immense fishing pressure that many water's in Alberta experience. This, coupled with a seemingly vast number of anglers with no regard for the regulations and an obvious lack in available enforcement, fuels the attitudes you will see on this board. One thing that really opened my eyes to the extreme fishing pressure in Alberta is many of the stocked trout water. I have never in my life experienced a trout fishery managed for "put and take" that was actually fished out by the end of the season, and it seems like that is a common occurrence across the province.
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Old 05-29-2011, 01:07 PM
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"Hi, I'm new. This is how I expect you to act around me. If you don't, you don't get to experience the bliss that is my presence."

Welcome to the forum and all that but don't you think this is just a little preachy for a "hi, I'm new" thread? Especially given this particular choir you're preaching to.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:14 PM
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Welcome to AO. And thanks for educating us on how things are done in Toronto the good.

In my world, poaching doesn't have a color, it is just poaching.

My perspective is not quite so convoluted as yours. It's poaching and polluting or it's not. No need to muddy the waters with the "race" card, or 'tar sands' or whiteman's rape of the planet.

How long were you planning to stay in Alberta?
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Redfrog View Post
Welcome to AO. And thanks for educating us on how things are done in Toronto the good.

In my world, poaching doesn't have a color, it is just poaching.

My perspective is not quite so convoluted as yours. It's poaching and polluting or it's not. No need to muddy the waters with the "race" card, or 'tar sands' or whiteman's rape of the planet.

How long were you planning to stay in Alberta?
His points regarding race were valid. Every time a poaching thread starts here, some racist hick blunders in about "damned asians" and "bloody immigrants".

There have been 2 recent threads that I've reported. Not the OP of the thread, but some dim witted responder later on. Lefty actually tried to take race out of the equation on his recent post, but that didn't stop some knuckle-dragger from wading in with some racist BS.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:36 PM
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Howdy folks!
<snip>
Outstanding post, and welcome.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Photoplex View Post
His points regarding race were valid. Every time a poaching thread starts here, some racist hick blunders in about "damned asians" and "bloody immigrants".

There have been 2 recent threads that I've reported. Not the OP of the thread, but some dim witted responder later on. Lefty actually tried to take race out of the equation on his recent post, but that didn't stop some knuckle-dragger from wading in with some racist BS.
Maybe you could read again what I posted. Real simple. Leave race out of it. It's poaching plain and simple.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:07 PM
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Maybe you could read again what I posted. Real simple. Leave race out of it. It's poaching plain and simple.
I think he has the same feelings on the matter as you, but was trying to get others on this forum to leave race out of the equation too...
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:17 PM
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^^^^ May be true....but if that's the case, he shouldn't slam the oilsands with their Eastern view of it on an "Alberta" Outdoorsmen " forum. I agree Race has nothing to do with it, but neither does his preconceived notions bred out his naivety of the situation... BTW, still chuckle, how we as Canadians are so afraid to say what we think because , someone, somewhere no matter what you say or think, is going to call you a racist. Fine, I am one!!!! You ASKED to come here!!! Welcome!! here, Now assimilate into OUR society, abide by our laws and enjoy everything this country has to offer. Leave your baggage back where you came from!!!.. Deflectors on in HIGH MODE
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:28 PM
FishingFrenzy FishingFrenzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Photoplex View Post
His points regarding race were valid. Every time a poaching thread starts here, some racist hick blunders in about "damned asians" and "bloody immigrants".

There have been 2 recent threads that I've reported. Not the OP of the thread, but some dim witted responder later on. Lefty actually tried to take race out of the equation on his recent post, but that didn't stop some knuckle-dragger from wading in with some racist BS.
I think your "damn wrong" and "bloody mistaken".

I don't remember the last time that asians were actully attacked as a race. Yes, they have been discriminated against by many people (as being the only race who poach) which is WRONG, but I dont belive they are frequently attacked on a public forum. MOST of the time that they ARE mentioned on these forums, is when describing a group of poachers. I honestly see no problem using race to describe someones physical characteristics. If i was describing poachers i would be just as willing to say "20 y/o-ish white male" and i would "old asian man" or "middle aged black woman". Like it or not the color of ones skin IS a great way to describe them to fellow outdoorsman AND the authorities.

Maybe that makes me a "racist hick"

Just my 2 cents
'frenzy

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Last edited by FishingFrenzy; 05-29-2011 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:43 PM
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^^^^ May be true....but if that's the case, he shouldn't slam the oilsands with their Eastern view of it on an "Alberta" Outdoorsmen " forum.
I was born in Alberta so let me slam the oilsands from a domestic point of view. They are a destructive blight that has allowed our province to become overrun with folks from everywhere that just don't give a damn. Whether it's pollution, urban sprawl, or new albertans that don't read the hunting/fishing regulations it all ties together and leads to some really crappy outdoors adventures of late.

As for poachers, describe them as you see them as with any crime. If race is a good descriptor to help to find the true culprit than so be it, that does not make the witness/complainant a racist.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:54 PM
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Your post was fairly clear on your stand regarding the issues you posted about.

Now did you bring any tips, tricks or methods that we may not be aware of either from BC or Ont.?

Why not start a new thread and share with us!
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:06 PM
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Far from being racist, the description of poachers, not matter what race, is important. What they drive and such is of equal value. The one pair in the sienna van will now be looked for as they are repeat poachers that just don't care because we don't have enough teeth to fix the problem. Its unfortunate that because of these 2 clowns, all asians will be looked at more closely. Right or wrong, its reality.

PS, there are some outstanding guys on this forum that are asian that contribute greatly, and I look forward to fishing with them sometime.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:14 PM
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Far from being racist, the description of poachers, not matter what race, is important. What they drive and such is of equal value. The one pair in the sienna van will now be looked for as they are repeat poachers that just don't care because we don't have enough teeth to fix the problem. Its unfortunate that because of these 2 clowns, all asians will be looked at more closely. Right or wrong, its reality.

PS, there are some outstanding guys on this forum that are asian that contribute greatly, and I look forward to fishing with them sometime.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:18 PM
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PS, there are some outstanding guys on this forum that are asian that contribute greatly, and I look forward to fishing with them sometime.
^^^^^^
X2

One of my best friends/hunting partners is part asian and he just joined the site so add another one to that list! He knows more about guns than do alot of people. He is likely one of...... if not the best bowhunter I know.

Lefty
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