Robert Bennett Grizzly Attack in May 2013 Alberta Outdoorsman

[albertacowboy]

I just wondered if anyone knows if there have been legal ramifications of possibly illegal handgun carry since Mr. Bennett shot the bear with a handgun, according to the article. Please note that I am not flaming nor voicing an opinion, just asking for information.

[Jamie Black R/T]

I heard through the swan hills rumor mill that they didnt pursue charges against him.

That said, im sure not mentioning at all in the article was no mistake.

[dbcooper]

I finally got to read my copy of AO. Man what a chilling write up. I hope he wasn't charged. Just terrifying thought to be that unlucky in the field.

Dave

[sinawalli]

The "charge" by the griz was enough! It is a awesome story! Lots of good luck in his favor, handgun and cell service! My neighbor is a RN at the hospital that treated him, and she said he was tore up pretty good! Wonder how he is doing taday??

[CaberTosser]

Perhap's he's one of the lucky few with a permit? They do exist, so its not automatically illegal, and in fact the exact reason the permits are issued. This could well be an excellent example of why such permits should be issued in greater numbers for outdoorsmen & women.

[Herleboy]

Totally agree I think there should be more permits issued. People would amazed who is packing within city limits.

[SonofDixie]

Sounds crazy. I'm not subscribed for magazine. Any one mind filling me in on the story?

[radio_silence]

Generally, people in authourity (including officers of the law) are entitled to excercise discernment and common sense in the course of their job.

There is the letter of the law, and there's the spirit of the law

If someone isn't prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I don't think its always prudent to make a big deal of it.

Just sayin' :thinking-006:

[Lefty-Canuck]

My question is....how many folks are going to follow his lead and start packing without carry permits?

Granted not many are going to have a bear encounter....so why not pack something that is legal and more effective?

LC

[thirty-30]

Ironically enough, I own a .44 magnum revolver. I'd rather carry my .45-70 guide gun because that's what I am used to having over my shoulder at all times anyway; I am virtually never without it in the bush and have carried it for years.

I'll bet I could have it off my back, on my shoulder and three squirts gone in the time that it would take me to get a pistol clear of the holster, frig with it and get it on target and probably miss the first round..

I know my limits.

I'm no campcook at speed shooting with the thing, but I vastly trust it over a pistol and I can guarantee it'll do the job if I connect (and I will, because of the familiarity)

[Ryry4]

My question is....how many folks are going to follow his lead and start packing without carry permits?

Granted not many are going to have a bear encounter....so why not pack something that is legal and more effective?

LC

So you know for a fact he was breaking the law? I haven't read the article but it sounds like what he had was effective.

[CaberTosser]

My question is....how many folks are going to follow his lead and start packing without carry permits?

Granted not many are going to have a bear encounter....so why not pack something that is legal and more effective?

LC


You ever see how many various kydex and cordura hip and shoulder holsters are sold at WSS? I've never seen any of those used in cowboy action shooting...... They're kind of near the bowhunting section......

[het4human]

Although I am not "supposed" to have any firearms in the truck at work I always carry at the very least a defender 12 Guage cause I am always alone in the middle of nowhere.

I have never carried a restricted firearm outside of legal usage (range vists) but I agree that more permits to carry, in the case of remote workers) would not be a bad thing

[Lefty-Canuck]

So you know for a fact he was breaking the law? I haven't read the article but it sounds like what he had was effective.

I know enough that I didn't have to read the article to find out....and I know more than was ever printed there.

LC

[magic99]

Are we allowed to carry a 30-30 when we walk through bushes in kananaskis for fishing at spray lakes? Sometime I do a 45 min hike through bushes there with only bear spray for fishing... I have been thinking about bringing a 30-30 for protecton

[buckbrushoutdoors]

My question is....how many folks are going to follow his lead and start packing without carry permits?

Granted not many are going to have a bear encounter....so why not pack something that is legal and more effective?

LC

I don't know many people that have been into the willmore or any of the 400's for that matter tht haven't had a bear encounter. I know of two seperate grizz attacks in the willmore last fall.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I don't know many people that have been into the willmore or any of the 400's for that matter tht haven't had a bear encounter. I know of two seperate grizz attacks in the willmore last fall.

First off don't get me wrong I would love to be able to carry a restricted sidearm when out and about.....but as it stands now it is a criminal offence to do so without proper permission/documentation.

How did those grizz attacks you know about turn out?...both for the human and for the bear?

LC

[buckbrushoutdoors]

Bear lost, luckily

[winger7mm]

My question is....how many folks are going to follow his lead and start packing without carry permits?

Granted not many are going to have a bear encounter....so why not pack something that is legal and more effective?

LC

Do you know how many people are afraid of bears who own handguns who hike in grizz country??? I know of a friend of a friend of a guy I know who has his wife pack his .45acp and he has his .50cal desert eagle on him. Reason hes afraid of bears

[winger7mm]

Are we allowed to carry a 30-30 when we walk through bushes in kananaskis for fishing at spray lakes? Sometime I do a 45 min hike through bushes there with only bear spray for fishing... I have been thinking about bringing a 30-30 for protecton

As long as the firearm isnt considered restricted, you arnt in an area that doesnt allow firearms such as a provincial park, you are free to carry what you want

[Lefty-Canuck]

Do you know how many people are afraid of bears who own handguns who hike in grizz country??? I know of a friend of a friend of a guy I know who has his wife pack his .45acp and he has his .50cal desert eagle on him. Reason hes afraid of bears

A friend of a friend of a guy you know....so you and your wife do this is what you are saying? :)

No I don't know how many exactly and I doubt you do either....people I know follow restricted firearms rules so I don't know anyone who does :)

Why should these people feel the need to be above the law when they can legally carry better options for protection?....is it the "cool factor"?

LC

[winger7mm]

A friend of a friend if a guy you know....so you and your wife do this is what you are saying? :)

No I don't know how many exactly and I doubt you do either....people I know follow restricted firearms rules so I don't know anyone who does :)

Why should these people feel the need to be above the law when they can legally carry better options for protection?....is it the "cool factor"?

LC

Hey come on, lol its actually a friend of a friend for real lmao, I dont own restricted firearms nor am I afraid of bears lol. You are right I dont know, I do know alot of people are afraid of bears though. I have asked him about the guns vs bear spray, but he is more concerned about being able to use deadly force then something proven to work better. btw he doesnt hunt neither does the wife. IMO thats one of the reasons hes afraid of bears.

I can definatly see the need to carry while bow hunting, But when I think about packing while im rifle hunting...... I need to pack a handgun, right like I need ONE more thing to pack around the mountains no thank you. Prefer my rifle, and I have a nice spot on my packs shoulder strap that can hold bear spray just right ;)

Do I think I should have the option to carry a handgun when in bear country? Hell yea I do. But that'll never happen because people who own handguns who can use for defense WILL rob people and do driveby shootings on the way home. (not a jab at restricted owners, more of a jab at the morons who instituted the restricted laws, and there thinking behind it)

[buckbrushoutdoors]

a guy hikes into the mountains with his rifle strapped to his loaded down 70lb pack. He encounters a bear at close range, the bear charges. Do you think the guy has enough time to get his rifle off his pack and work a round into the chamber and kill the charging bear? It has nothing to do with "cool factor" packing a handgun on his hip. It's protection and easy accessibility to have in case of such an event. I've spent enough time with a gun strapped to my pack to know that getting it off and killing a bear is not a option.

I'm really glad the guy never got charged for his preparedness. Kudos to him, without that handgun he would have been dead. Period.

[elkhunter11]

I don't know if the person was carrying the handgun legally or not, but if he was carrying it illegally, the reason for not charging him, was most likely to keep the general public from knowing the situation. If having the gun saved his life, and he was charged, there would be a huge outcry to have the laws changed. The last thing that the government wants, is to have to defend their firearms laws, so it's easier to just not charge one individual, in order to keep the situation from gaining any extra media attention.

To be perfectly honest , if the gun was being carried illegally, not charging this person was actually the worst possible outcome for the firearms community. Hiding issues by avoiding them, results in the issues not being resolved.

[Lefty-Canuck]

a guy hikes into the mountains with his rifle strapped to his loaded down 70lb pack. He encounters a bear at close range, the bear charges. Do you think the guy has enough time to get his rifle off his pack and work a round into the chamber and kill the charging bear? It has nothing to do with "cool factor" packing a handgun on his hip. It's protection and easy accessibility to have in case of such an event. I've spent enough time with a gun strapped to my pack to know that getting it off and killing a bear is not a option.

I'm really glad the guy never got charged for his preparedness. Kudos to him, without that handgun he would have been dead. Period.

....if only you knew more about the story....neither bear had to die nor did he have to get chewed on....that's all I am saying on this topic.

So why don't you regularly pack a handgun illegally? If being prepared is the most important thing and is above the laws some of us choose to follow?

Carry your rifle or use a sling that allows easy access...."boonie sling", strapping a rifle to your pack doesn't serve as any protection.

I am not arguing that we shouldn't be allowed to carry handguns....my point is now as it stands we are not legally allowed to do so.

LC

[elkhunter11]

....if only you knew more about the story....neither bear had to die nor did he have to get chewed on....that's all I am saying on this topic.


Many bears are killed in "self defense", or to "protect the public", when the truth is, that they didn't need to die.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Many bears are killed in "self defense", or to "protect the public", when the truth is, that they didn't need to die.

Absolutely

LC

[280Hunter]

I've bow hunted for enough years now, with a few too many "close" encounters with bears to know the benefits it would be to carry a sidearm. When I'm out hunting I always have a pack on my back for carrying license/regs/survival/firstaid/water etc etc etc. And at times depending on where I'm headed out bowhunting, I'll carry my defender over my shoulder as well! Which just makes for too much of awkward/heavy inconvenient load...Maybe one day they'll change their packing laws...But until then it's up to the hunter to decide if it's worth the risk to carry! and after reading/hearing stories like the one here, I can see why so many people do.

[thunderheart]

anyone have a link for the artical ?

[SkytopBrewster]

I never read the article either but if a pistol saved his life I think that is ammo to get the rules changed, I own handguns in calibers I feel would be sufficient to protect myself from bears/big cats and should be able to carry when out in the bush.

[Dog hunter]

I hunt in bear(grizz,black),cougar and wolf and don't have my restricted but when I leave the road it's gun loaded safety on in my hands pack or not and when I hear something behind me I look ,it's cost me a few deer and saved my but from a cougar,started bow hunting last year and I really wish a handgun permit was easier to get

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys, we will never get the right to carry handguns in Canada. The law has been around since the 1930's and is under federal jurisdiction. We were lucky to get rid of the long gun registration. It is still in effect in Quebec so you can see the battle in each province. The Feds may still charge him which would be sad.

[bessiedog]

I hunt in bear(grizz,black),cougar and wolf and don't have my restricted but when I leave the road it's gun loaded safety on in my hands pack or not and when I hear something behind me I look ,it's cost me a few deer and saved my but from a cougar,started bow hunting last year and I really wish a handgun permit was easier to get

A lot of us here hunt in very similar areas with similar circumstances..... not trying to 'one up' ya but my yard is pretty much like that (no wolf yet.. give er time i figure). IMHO your gun loaded safety on is probably presentng more of a danger in the bush than the critters. All you got is a trigger keeping that thing from firing and your walking.... You might enjoy the bush more with less fear possibly.

I run-train with bear spray... I now only bow hunt with bear spray.. I tried a sawed off 20G single.... too bulky when chasing elk over hill over dale.. and I'd never ever be able to grab it off my back and get a shot off.

And down in 400-402 what good is bear spray down here when you suprise a bruin UP WIND FROM U?? I think its more 'meal prep' than self defence.

so bearspray, knife, bad attitude and stinky body are my defenses.. For years I used to let the fear get me... but now i look at it as an extra rush... I mean really.. Alberta is one of the last few places where the game of hunting can go both ways.. I'm not the top predator.. I humble up and accept it.

Really if its my time.. then its my time. I'm living well... no regrets really.


When I'm with the kids way out in the buch... im a total hypocrite and pack my shotty everywhere and I'm a full on bearanoid idiot. Their lives are way more valuable than mine.

[creeky]

A lot of us here hunt in very similar areas with similar circumstances..... not trying to 'one up' ya but my yard is pretty much like that (no wolf yet.. give er time i figure). IMHO your gun loaded safety on is probably presentng more of a danger in the bush than the critters. All you got is a trigger keeping that thing from firing and your walking.... You might enjoy the bush more with less fear possibly.

I run-train with bear spray... I now only bow hunt with bear spray.. I tried a sawed off 20G single.... too bulky when chasing elk over hill over dale.. and I'd never ever be able to grab it off my back and get a shot off.

And down in 400-402 what good is bear spray down here when you suprise a bruin UP WIND FROM U?? I think its more 'meal prep' than self defence.

so bearspray, knife, bad attitude and stinky body are my defenses.. For years I used to let the fear get me... but now i look at it as an extra rush... I mean really.. Alberta is one of the last few places where the game of hunting can go both ways.. I'm not the top predator.. I humble up and accept it.

Really if its my time.. then its my time. I'm living well... no regrets really.


When I'm with the kids way out in the buch... im a total hypocrite and pack my shotty everywhere and I'm a full on bearanoid idiot. Their lives are way more valuable than mine.

Brilliant!

[Sako123]

Agree with bessiedog. The logic of carrying sidearms in the bush is the same failed logic of carrying sidearms in the city...self protect against perceived threats.

I feel very fortunate to live in Canada where this activity is restricted. It is amazing to me that the guy from the Swanhills incident was not charged (if he was not permitted). So if you follow that logic, anyone can carry a sidearm in downtown Calgary, as long as they shoot someone that is a perceived threat. Sounds like lazy policing to me and a bad precedent.

[SkytopBrewster]

Agree with bessiedog. The logic of carrying sidearms in the bush is the same failed logic of carrying sidearms in the city...self protect against perceived threats.

I feel very fortunate to live in Canada where this activity is restricted. It is amazing to me that the guy from the Swanhills incident was not charged (if he was not permitted). So if you follow that logic, anyone can carry a sidearm in downtown Calgary, as long as they shoot someone that is a perceived threat. Sounds like lazy policing to me and a bad precedent.

What exactly is the difference between carrying a rifle, handgun,shotgun? Pistol more accessible in a holster, Besides this guys "Percieved threat" just happened to half maul him no?, nothing percieved bout that. Your comments just goes to show the Liberal type brainwashing "They" want us to think.Yes,if you allowed people to carry a sidearm in the bush of course there would be mass murder & mayhem in the streets of Calgary?

[Sako123]

What exactly is the difference between carrying a rifle, handgun,shotgun? Pistol more accessible in a holster, Besides this guys "Percieved threat" just happened to half maul him no?, nothing percieved bout that. Your comments just goes to show the Liberal type brainwashing "They" want us to think.Yes,if you allowed people to carry a sidearm in the bush of course there would be mass murder & mayhem in the streets of Calgary?
I am sure not a "liberal" but we will have to agree to disagree on the handgun thing. ~11K gun homicides annually in America vs ~200 gun homicides annually in Canada, enough said.

I respect your opinion and thoughts, however I feel fortunate that Canada has chosen the higher road on this matter.

[huntingcrazzy]

Does anyone know what issue of ao this was in.

[SkytopBrewster]

Scroll to the top of this page and click "Home"

[bessiedog]

Hey!
Whatcha gotta start name callin for?

I didn't say don't carry. I just said I dOnt anymore.

Pack in the bush if it gives you peace of mind.



So long as you don't hurt me and mine...

I pack firepower when I'm with my kids.

Next time you 'liberal' me, we're gonna have a disagreement! :(

[Speckle55]

Guys, we will never get the right to carry handguns in Canada. The law has been around since the 1930's and is under federal jurisdiction. We were lucky to get rid of the long gun registration. It is still in effect in Quebec so you can see the battle in each province. The Feds may still charge him which would be sad.

We have the right to carry hand guns in Canada its called a ATC-2 if its opensite and in remote areas not many people apply and the other is a ATC-3 which is concealed in 2002 in Ontario there were 13 given out in 2002

Out here they the remote Trapper's I think have the right to carry open site ..my buddy has a Trap line in Willmore Park and has permit he said

here is a read but people can ph 310-0000 and ask for the Prov Firearms Officer.. although they are very hard to get

we need more people to apply for their rights :thinking-006:

David:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry

[Big Bull]

Does anyone know what issue of ao this was in.

Current issue - May 2013

[Sako123]

We have the right to carry hand guns in Canada its called a ATC-2 if its opensite and in remote areas not many people apply and the other is a ATC-3 which is concealed in 2002 in Ontario there were 13 given out in 2002

Out here they the remote Trapper's I think have the right to carry open site ..my buddy has a Trap line in Willmore Park and has permit he said

here is a read but people can ph 310-0000 and ask for the Prov Firearms Officer.. although they are very hard to get

we need more people to apply for their rights :thinking-006:

David:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry
Agreed that anyone wishing to carry a handgun in Canada should do so in compliance with existing laws. Fortunately, there is no "right" to carry a handgun in Canada, you must be confused with America.

[Jordan Smith]

I think he's talking about the right to defend one's self.

You may be right about the numbers when it comes to gun homicides in Canada vs. the US, but it sure ain't because they can carry handguns! I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, so I'll leave it at that.

[ESOXangler]

I know enough that I didn't have to read the article to find out....and I know more than was ever printed there.

LC

I "know" more than was printed there too as Ive hunted with him and where he was is pretty tight bush. Did he handle the begining of the situation text book? Probably not as nothing is ever perfect, bottom line is he is here today because of his handgun! Now for all of you that think you'd do better with I rifle I hope you don't never have to find out. It is what it is, and thank Christ he won and the bear didn't.

[SkytopBrewster]

I don'tknow how many times I downloaded the forms and got half way through them thinking, theres no way I'll get it but I think I just might give it a go after reading this thread.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I "know" more than was printed there too as Ive hunted with him and where he was is pretty tight bush. Did he handle the begining of the situation text book? Probably not as nothing is ever perfect, bottom line is he is here today because of his handgun! Now for all of you that think you'd do better with I rifle I hope you don't never have to find out. It is what it is, and thank Christ he won and the bear didn't.

I agree it is a good thing that he was able to survive the situation.

LC

[deercrazy!]

Better to be alive and guilty than dead and innocent , I am not talking about carrying a restricted around the city and I have never taken one in the bush with me because the area I hunt I don't feel threatened by predators but if I did I may take my chances?????? MHO

[TOG]

Agree with bessiedog. The logic of carrying sidearms in the bush is the same failed logic of carrying sidearms in the city...self protect against perceived threats.

I feel very fortunate to live in Canada where this activity is restricted. It is amazing to me that the guy from the Swanhills incident was not charged (if he was not permitted). So if you follow that logic, anyone can carry a sidearm in downtown Calgary, as long as they shoot someone that is a perceived threat. Sounds like lazy policing to me and a bad precedent.

Wow:thinking-006:

[steve]

....if only you knew more about the story....neither bear had to die nor did he have to get chewed on....that's all I am saying on this topic.

So why don't you regularly pack a handgun illegally? If being prepared is the most important thing and is above the laws some of us choose to follow?

Carry your rifle or use a sling that allows easy access...."boonie sling", strapping a rifle to your pack doesn't serve as any protection.

I am not arguing that we shouldn't be allowed to carry handguns....my point is now as it stands we are not legally allowed to do so.

LC

Why not enlighten us so we can better understand, if you know something we don't?

[1000yards]

I don'tknow how many times I downloaded the forms and got half way through them thinking, theres no way I'll get it but I think I just might give it a go after reading this thread.

Same here, but what can it hurt? Maybe this time I'll send

[Lefty-Canuck]

Why not enlighten us so we can better understand, if you know something we don't?

Believe it or not....some things are not meant for an open forum.

LC

[209x50]

It is fortunate the fellow had a gun and the presence of mind to use it correctly to survive the attack. Personally I've quit relying on a firearm for bear defense. I carry pepper spray. lighter, faster and easier to use, it is all I carry now.
Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote on bear spray:

Nonlethal responses to bear attacks have created controversy in the hunting community since the first time one was deployed. Many hunters and outdoorsmen have a hard time with the thought of facing down a bear without a trusty rifle in hand. Their faith in a well-placed bullet as a solution to a bear attack has been proven valid time and again. However not everyone is up to the challenge of making the necessary shot under such extreme conditions of duress. Add to this the fact a lethal shot that doesn’t instantly incapacitate the bear might be as good as a miss. A rage fueled bear can sustain a mortal wound but still remain alive long enough to kill or further maim the outdoorsman. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that proves this true. In fact in a study done by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service since 1992, people defending themselves with firearms during a grizzly attack get hurt about 50% of the time. Over the same time period, persons using pepper spray largely escaped injury. In cases where pepper spray was used and the person was injured the injuries were not as drastic in addition the attacks were much shorter that when a gun was used.
In 2008 Dr. Tom Smith published a research paper that analyzed 20 years of bear spray incidents in Alaska, from 1985 to 2006.
In the 72 cases where bear spray was used to defend from attack the numbers are both surprising and reassuring. Alaskan brown bears were involved in 50 of the attacks, black bears in 20 and polar bear in 2. Red pepper spray worked on polar bear 100% of the time although the sample is so small as to be inconclusive. Brown bears were deterred in 92% of the attacks and black bear 90%. Only 2% of the people using sprays were injured and none serious enough to require hospitalization. It is worth noting that wind played a role in a small percentage of the attacks but the bear were hit with enough spray to get the job done. In 3 of the deployments the people incapacitated themselves with the pepper spray.

The evidence from bear attacks - even from grizzly in Alaska show this guy may not have even been hurt if he would have used pepper spray. Now anyone that knows me will know that I was drug to this realization kicking and screaming. It is hard to think about facing that bear with out cold steel in your hand. The psychological effects on the bear by the spray is one of the best deterrents. When a bear attacks like this it is enraged and fully prepared to accept pain as well as inflict it. Some studies say the pain from wounding increases the length of a bear attack, where as the spray blinding it and, shutting down its respiratory function confuses the bear and it only wants to run at that point.

[Taco]

It is fortunate the fellow had a gun and the presence of mind to use it correctly to survive the attack. Personally I've quit relying on a firearm for bear defense. I carry pepper spray. lighter, faster and easier to use, it is all I carry now.
Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote on bear spray:

Nonlethal responses to bear attacks have created controversy in the hunting community since the first time one was deployed. Many hunters and outdoorsmen have a hard time with the thought of facing down a bear without a trusty rifle in hand. Their faith in a well-placed bullet as a solution to a bear attack has been proven valid time and again. However not everyone is up to the challenge of making the necessary shot under such extreme conditions of duress. Add to this the fact a lethal shot that doesn’t instantly incapacitate the bear might be as good as a miss. A rage fueled bear can sustain a mortal wound but still remain alive long enough to kill or further maim the outdoorsman. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that proves this true. In fact in a study done by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service since 1992, people defending themselves with firearms during a grizzly attack get hurt about 50% of the time. Over the same time period, persons using pepper spray largely escaped injury. In cases where pepper spray was used and the person was injured the injuries were not as drastic in addition the attacks were much shorter that when a gun was used.
In 2008 Dr. Tom Smith published a research paper that analyzed 20 years of bear spray incidents in Alaska, from 1985 to 2006.
In the 72 cases where bear spray was used to defend from attack the numbers are both surprising and reassuring. Alaskan brown bears were involved in 50 of the attacks, black bears in 20 and polar bear in 2. Red pepper spray worked on polar bear 100% of the time although the sample is so small as to be inconclusive. Brown bears were deterred in 92% of the attacks and black bear 90%. Only 2% of the people using sprays were injured and none serious enough to require hospitalization. It is worth noting that wind played a role in a small percentage of the attacks but the bear were hit with enough spray to get the job done. In 3 of the deployments the people incapacitated themselves with the pepper spray.

The evidence from bear attacks - even from grizzly in Alaska show this guy may not have even been hurt if he would have used pepper spray. Now anyone that knows me will know that I was drug to this realization kicking and screaming. It is hard to think about facing that bear with out cold steel in your hand. The psychological effects on the bear by the spray is one of the best deterrents. When a bear attacks like this it is enraged and fully prepared to accept pain as well as inflict it. Some studies say the pain from wounding increases the length of a bear attack, where as the spray blinding it and, shutting down its respiratory function confuses the bear and it only wants to run at that point.

A voice of reason in the wilderness. Thanks

[KegRiver]

I think we should be able to carry a handgun if we want to. Not because we need one, but just because we want one.

The way I see it, if we can be trusted with a .22, then there is no justification for restricting our access to any gun, handguns included.

The simple fact is that anyone can acquire an illegal gun if they really want to. Restricting them only keeps them out of the hands of people who can be trusted with them.

Also, anyone with a minimum mechanical skill can turn almost any gun into a handgun if they really want to.
More then on incarcerated criminal has proven that by producing handguns for themselves while in prison.

As for the fellow mentioned in the OP, it is highly unlikely anyone will ever know for certain if a rifle or shotgun would have been better for that situation or not.

And even if it were known, and the handgun was the superior weapon in that case, that does not mean a handgun would always be the superior weapon.

I'm glad he had a handgun with him. But how often does one encounter a situation like that.

I never have and I've been tramping around this bush for over fifty years.
A good part of that time I was alone and unarmed.

Yes it might happen, and lightning might strike me too. Yet you will never see me packing a lightning rod.

[Lefty-Canuck]

But if you wanted to pack and decided to carry a lightning rod with you....legally you could.

LC :)

[Redfrog]

Guys, we will never get the right to carry handguns in Canada. The law has been around since the 1930's and is under federal jurisdiction. We were lucky to get rid of the long gun registration. It is still in effect in Quebec so you can see the battle in each province. The Feds may still charge him which would be sad.

BUT the carry permits are issued provincially.

[grinr]

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[dfrobert]

Wow! Is this a hand gun issue? A legal issue? Or a proper bear defense issue?

If its a bear defense issue then the answer is BEAR SPRAY !! The studies have been done. I wouldn't trust my life on a handgun. Handgun use on a bear has way to many variables....accuracy, very low energy compared to a high power rifle, legal BS.

Glad this guy is ok. He made his choices and he got mauled. He should of been packing and using BEAR SPRAY.

[winger7mm]

Wow! Is this a hand gun issue? A legal issue? Or a proper bear defense issue?

If its a bear defense issue then the answer is BEAR SPRAY !! The studies have been done. I wouldn't trust my life on a handgun. Handgun use on a bear has way to many variables....accuracy, very low energy compared to a high power rifle, legal BS.

Glad this guy is ok. He made his choices and he got mauled. He should of been packing and using BEAR SPRAY.

Hard to say what A guy SHOULD have done, maybe he got into a small argument with the lady at home and SHOULD have stayed home to take her out for lunch. To say what someone SHOULD have done is naive at best.

[grinr]

Wow! Is this a hand gun issue? A legal issue? Or a proper bear defense issue?

If its a bear defense issue then the answer is BEAR SPRAY !! The studies have been done. I wouldn't trust my life on a handgun. Handgun use on a bear has way to many variables....accuracy, very low energy compared to a high power rifle, legal BS.

Glad this guy is ok. He made his choices and he got mauled. He should of been packing and using BEAR SPRAY.

Bottom line is non-lethal bear avoidance measures simply DO NOT work for bowhunters.As a bowhunter,I'm doing the exact textbook opposite of everything that one is "supposed to" do in bear country,and I'll assume this Bennet fella was doing likewise?Wearing bells,whistling,talking loud,etc is not a recipe for a successful bowhunt.Moving slow and quiet into the wind while sounding and smelling like the very same ungulates that bears prey upon is how we get within bowrange of antlered game,and unfortunately,also the recipe for surprising toothy critters with sharp claws.Bear spray vs. Bullets studies be damned,bullets work just as effectively upwind as down,which is the direction I'm most likely to encounter a bear at close range.Taking into account that bowhunters are likely to be doing "WRONG" and in contradiction to bear avoidance teachings,along with the high likelihood that any bears encountered will be upwind,thus rendering bear spray ineffective,I'd rather trust my life to hot lead firepower,and good on Bennet for having the foresight to understand that bowhunting in grizzly country is risky bizness.That said,y'all can take yer "shoulda,woulda,coulda,situation coulda been avoided,bear didn't have to die" BS and save it for a group hug PETA rally. :rolleye2:

[dfrobert]

Hard to say what A guy SHOULD have done, maybe he got into a small argument with the lady at home and SHOULD have stayed home to take her out for lunch. To say what someone SHOULD have done is naive at best.

To each their own. Go ahead and pack what your gonna use for bear protection. I'll be using bear spray. Saying that hunters, fisherman, people in bear country SHOULD pack bear spray and know how to use the stuff is far from naive IMO.

[SkytopBrewster]

That said,y'all can take yer "shoulda,woulda,coulda,situation coulda been avoided,bear didn't have to die" BS and save it for a group hug PETA rally. :rolleye2:[/QUOTE]

:) Well said!

[winger7mm]

To each their own. Go ahead and pack what your gonna use for bear protection. I'll be using bear spray. Saying that hunters, fisherman, people in bear country SHOULD pack bear spray and know how to use the stuff is far from naive IMO.

Im not saying packing bear spray is naive, Im saying your comment of "should" is naive. From what I can find bear spray has been around since about 1994, when did you start carrying spray?? There are lots of studies out on the success of the spray vs lethal force. Guess what in this case lethal saved his life, "IF" he had spray would the outcome have been different? sure, He might not have gotten touched at all, or he may have been killed. Fact of the matter is he lived because of the handgun, the sole reason for him being alive today.

Im afraid of being charged and run over by cattle, come close a few times but a shot in the air deterred it, should I pack a prod when in cattle country?? see where its going?? Shoulda's are for your personal self not an opinion on other people

[winger7mm]

That said,y'all can take yer "shoulda,woulda,coulda,situation coulda been avoided,bear didn't have to die" BS and save it for a group hug PETA rally. :rolleye2:

:) Well said![/QUOTE]

Another reason we need a "like" button lmao :D

[Dark Wing]

I just read the article and all I can say is WOW ! A guy gets attacked by a sow grizzly and beats all odds and survives. He had his hand gun out and ready to fire and still barely makes it out alive thanks to the quick response of first responders. I think if it was me in his shoes I would rather have a can of bear spray. I've seen a grizzly charge a black bear in the mountains and have talked to another guy who was mauled by a bear and he said if it was a true charge most guy's wouldn't have time to crap their pants let alone raise a rifle in self defense.

[thegunman]

To each their own. Go ahead and pack what your gonna use for bear protection. I'll be using bear spray. Saying that hunters, fisherman, people in bear country SHOULD pack bear spray and know how to use the stuff is far from naive IMO.

What happens if he comes at you from up wind? Or any other direction other then down wind?
The nice thing about bullets is, wind direction poses no problem.

[bowhunter12]

I wanted to read the article but cant seem to find it

[SkytopBrewster]

You have to buy the current issue to read it.

[grinr]

I just read the article and all I can say is WOW ! A guy gets attacked by a sow grizzly and beats all odds and survives. He had his hand gun out and ready to fire and still barely makes it out alive thanks to the quick response of first responders. I think if it was me in his shoes I would rather have a can of bear spray. I've seen a grizzly charge a black bear in the mountains and have talked to another guy who was mauled by a bear and he said if it was a true charge most guy's wouldn't have time to crap their pants let alone raise a rifle in self defense.
No time to draw a gun but time for bear spray?? :confused:
Thanks anyway,but I'll take my chances with the gun and shoot before it gets that close.

[Okotokian]

.Bear spray vs. Bullets studies be damned,bullets work just as effectively upwind as down,which is the direction I'm most likely to encounter a bear at close range.


Ignore actual statistics if you wish and go with your "gut", based on... well, nothing. Don't wear a seatbelt either, because it's better to be thrown clear of a wreck, even if it is through the front windshield. ;)

Love the unscientific approach. LOL So does the Flat Earth Society. ;)

[Okotokian]

What happens if he comes at you from up wind? Or any other direction other then down wind?
The nice thing about bullets is, wind direction poses no problem.

And the nice thing about bear spray is it's statistically proven to keep you alive more often than a gun. Obviously wind direction doesn't pose that much of a problem. Repel the bear at ten yard downwind or 5 yards upwind. More hunters alive that used spray than used a gun. Facts... damn them.

If you want to go with a gun rather than spray, I have absolutely no problem with that. Your choice. Just don't be trying to convince others that it's safer when it's not.

[Dark Wing]

No time to draw a gun but time for bear spray?? :confused:
Thanks anyway,but I'll take my chances with the gun and shoot before it gets that close.

The gentlemen who I mentioned that was attacked by the grizzly was carrying a lever action 30 30. He tried getting a shot away at the sow but wasn't successfull at hitting his target. His 70 year old father fought it off by jamming his diamond willow walking stick down the sows throat. So yes neither a fire arm or bear spray would have worked. These two guys had roughly a 110 years of extensive bush experience between them and were lucky to walk away in the end. If you sat on trail and waited hoping a bear wasn't going to notice you mear feet away it isn't going to end well. 209x50 explains it well and most guys aren't going be able to keep their cool in order to deliver a lethal shot while being charged. I've only experienced one scarry grizz encounter in the dark and may have ended differently if I could have seen what was going on. To each their own in what ever bear defence we choose and I hope at the end of the day every one arrives safe and sound to their families.

[foxhunter540]

bear spray is not going to help any better with a po'd mother bear like why didn't the gun work right off cause she was ****ed so with that said bear spray no better and if ya think it is by all means stand between a mother bear and her cub i DARE YA

[thegunman]

And the nice thing about bear spray is it's statistically proven to keep you alive more often than a gun. Obviously wind direction doesn't pose that much of a problem. Repel the bear at ten yard downwind or 5 yards upwind. More hunters alive that used spray than used a gun. Facts... damn them.

If you want to go with a gun rather than spray, I have absolutely no problem with that. Your choice. Just don't be trying to convince others that it's safer when it's not.

Can't say I recall trying to convince anyone of anything, just trying to ask what someone would do in that situation with Pepper Spray.

[Okotokian]

bear spray is not going to help any better with a po'd mother bear like why didn't the gun work right off cause she was ****ed so with that said bear spray no better and if ya think it is by all means stand between a mother bear and her cub i DARE YA

What sources/statistics back up your view that bear spray doesn't do a better job?

[Jamie]

What sources/statistics back up your view that bear spray doesn't do a better job?

What studies do you have Oko?
Interspersing question overall
Btw, bear spray manufacture studies can't count.

Jamie

[Okotokian]

Can't say I recall trying to convince anyone of anything, just trying to ask what someone would do in that situation with Pepper Spray.

LOL hush, don't mess up my self-rightous rant. ;)

As for what someone would do in that situation, filling my pants as I would in such a predicament, I figure I could hit a nose with spray more likely than hit a heart with a bullet.

[209x50]

LOL hush, don't mess up my self-rightous rant. ;)

As for what someone would do in that situation, filling my pants as I would in such a predicament, I figure I could hit a nose with spray more likely than hit a heart with a bullet.
The beauty of bear spray is you aren't aiming at anything or trying to hit anything. The bear is running at you. You simply get a fog of pepper spray in between you and the bear and he runs into it on his way to you. very simple and as the studies show effective.

[Okotokian]

What studies do you have Oko?
Interspersing question overall
Btw, bear spray manufacture studies can't count.

Jamie

Here's a couple. There are more
http://www.bearspray.com/bear_spray_study.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/bear-spray-grizzly-attacks-firearms_n_1379673.html

[Pathfinder76]

Why don't PH's pack bear spray in Africa?

[209x50]

Why don't PH's pack bear spray in Africa?
Just a shot - because there are no bears?

[colin455]

I am sure not a "liberal" but we will have to agree to disagree on the handgun thing. ~11K gun homicides annually in America vs ~200 gun homicides annually in Canada, enough said.

I respect your opinion and thoughts, however I feel fortunate that Canada has chosen the higher road on this matter.

Are you forgetting its also 10X the population too?
If you feel comfortable not carrying, good for you. However; saying that no one needs to is hogwash.
Proper training and a clean record should suffice. I have a spare tire incase I need it. I have fire extinguishers incase I need them. Why is this different? Why?
A firearm is simply a tool. Are you afraid of a carpenter walking around in a tool belt with a hammer? Why not? Hammers kill more people than handguns. See FBI list for other household items that take more lives.
Thank goodness that fellow is recovering. While I feel a little sorry for the bear also, we don't have the full story. He may have done everything right and it still came down to the bear or him.
May his recovery be swift and full.

[Dark Wing]

Are you forgetting its also 10X the population too?
If you feel comfortable not carrying, good for you. However; saying that no one needs to is hogwash.
Proper training and a clean record should suffice. I have a spare tire incase I need it. I have fire extinguishers incase I need them. Why is this different? Why?
A firearm is simply a tool. Are you afraid of a carpenter walking around in a tool belt with a hammer? Why not? Hammers kill more people than handguns. See FBI list for other household items that take more lives.
Thank goodness that fellow is recovering. While I feel a little sorry for the bear also, we don't have the full story. He may have done everything right and it still came down to the bear or him.
May his recovery be swift and full.

The guy went trough 2 clips at close range and was lucky to be alive after still being mauled. So maybe a hand gun was the wrong tool for the job.

[Sako123]

Are you forgetting its also 10X the population too?
If you feel comfortable not carrying, good for you. However; saying that no one needs to is hogwash.
Proper training and a clean record should suffice. I have a spare tire incase I need it. I have fire extinguishers incase I need them. Why is this different? Why?
A firearm is simply a tool. Are you afraid of a carpenter walking around in a tool belt with a hammer? Why not? Hammers kill more people than handguns. See FBI list for other household items that take more lives.
Thank goodness that fellow is recovering. While I feel a little sorry for the bear also, we don't have the full story. He may have done everything right and it still came down to the bear or him.
May his recovery be swift and full.
I am comfortable in letting Darwin's natural selection take place.

As for the topic of handguns, I again feel very fortunate to live in a country that will make it next to impossible for someone other than law enforcement to legally carry one. This will never change in Canada.

Just my thoughts as a bow and rifle hunter, and I think a vast majority of Canadian gun owners and hunters agree.

[sikwhiskey]

I am comfortable in letting Darwin's natural selection take place.

As for the topic of handguns, I again feel very fortunate to live in a country that will make it next to impossible for someone other than law enforcement to legally carry one. This will never change in Canada.

Just my thoughts as a bow and rifle hunter, and I think a vast majority of Canadian gun owners and hunters agree.

Good evening Wendy!!
I think your wrong! The vast majority of Canadian gun owners and hunters can see though this BS propaganda! Gun owners have just start to flex there might As the recent death LGR goes to show. Poke the Sleeping bear enough.......
You keep patting your self on the back though, and sleep well at night knowing that evil pistols will only be carried by law enforcement.

[digiphantom]

In fact in a study done by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service since 1992, people defending themselves with firearms during a grizzly attack get hurt about 50% of the time. Over the same time period, persons using pepper spray largely escaped injury.



The fact that a PROPERLY USED bear spray is MUCH MORE EFFICIENT against a charging bear is beyond any doubt and very well established in general and scientific literature (the BEAR section in my library has about 4 feet of books on bears with special interest on bear attacks and their avoidance). An emphasis here is on "PROPERLY USED" and I do not want to go into details. I always carry 2 (two) 380 grams (large) cans of fresh bear spray: one in my chest holster and the other in my waist belt holster. The beauty of the chest holster is that I do not have to draw the can: just touch it with my finger and in a split of a second I can fire at the target quite accurately. A "generic" bear spray works on charging bears about 90% of the time but the cases when the bear continued the charge after being sprayed show that the the person run out of the spray using a small can. That is why one should use a fresh fully charged large (380g) can and/or preferably carry a second spare can. Furthermore, proper use of spray requires a regular target practice just like shooting a handgun.

Now regarding a generic "handgun" on a charging grizzly or even a black bear tickles me laughing. This is just like sticking a thumb tack into rear end of a charging bull. WHAT CALIBER WOULD ONE LIKE TO USE on a charging grizzly? It has been documented in the literature that a charging grizzly hit by a .375 H&H magnum rifle managed to run 300 yards and finish off the hunter even though its heart was totally destroyed by the rifle bullet. I love my 12 GA 3.5 inch tactical defender but would NEVER dream to shoot it into any bear (I have another use for it). I enjoy shooting handguns from .17 olympic competition target pistols through all calibers .20 - .22 - 9mm - .38 .357 Mag - .40 - .44 Mag - .45 Colt ACP and I get even kicks from shooting full house .44 Mag - it tickles my palm like my little sweetheart. But I would NEVER even consider shooting anything like that into a bear. Maybe .454 Casull - I thought about it when I used to be young and foolish but NOT anymore. Yes, there are handguns suitable for the job (without going into details I just mention "Bear Gun" - go and find what it is...) But who has the money to pay for such big boomers and for the ammo (we are talking here about thousands of $)? And more importantly who has the physique, strength, and endurance to handle the recoil and hundreds of rounds of target practice to be able to handle such monster reliably and efficiently? Originally US army introduced 1911 Colt .45 as a standard sidearm for rank and file officers. Not anymore since the end II WW. Why? Even .45 proved to be too much to handle for an average Joe. Elite special forces still use it: Navy Seals, Delta Force, some FBI, UKSF, UKSAS..., but NOT an average Joe in the bush. And yet .45 is just a miserable pipsqueek against a charging grizzly and make him/her even madder and deadlier! Give me a break and forget about using handguns for defense against bears by an average hunter, fisherman, camper, hiker etc - unless he/she is bent on a suicidal mission!

So we know that bear spray is 90% efficient, maybe even more if you carry a large can (or 2) in a chest holster. Am I satisfied with having almost 10% chance to get badly hurt in a bear attack? Some days I even like it - it is an extra transcendental thrill to realize how small and insignificant I am against Mother Nature. Some days I do not like those 10% chance to end up in grizzly droppings. So what now? Then you must have perseverance of a hard working mule and carry a modern .45- 70 Government Guide Gun lever action with max full handloads or better yet .450 Marlin. It is small, very light, inexpensive, lever action handles faster and is more accurate than a handgun, recovery after a shot is faster with a shoulder stock than using a handgun, and it has enough power to handle even an elephant (with some artistic license) if you can take a little "kick". Can you learn to shoot it? If you are so scared about your precious EGO then certainly you shall if you are worth your salt! And some people actually get ecstatic when getting some occasional "KICK" from your sweetheart! So you see, The Duke was always right with his favorite lever action in hand. What is the best about this gun? It is NOT restricted so you can perfectly legally carry it everywhere. Even in the provincial and national parks or in the cities provided that you get a nice little safe handy case. You can take it with you camping and fishing. And it is an excellent bush "deer gun" with light loads. There is a beauty currently in the Browning catalog called .450 Marlin BLR. It is available in stainless steel and can be taken apart so it is not much bigger than a large handgun. Besides the price the only problem with it is that it is in such a high demand that Browning cannot keep sufficient supply. Do NOT buy that fancy, expensive, luxury Browning, the original Marlin manufacture will do the job excellently and save you a big bundle.

[sikwhiskey]

^^^What do you use in sub zero temperatures ? Does bear spray freeze?

[bighorn1]

The fact that a PROPERLY USED bear spray is MUCH MORE EFFICIENT against a charging bear is beyond any doubt and very well established in general and scientific literature (the BEAR section in my library has about 4 feet of books on bears with special interest on bear attacks and their avoidance). An emphasis here is on "PROPERLY USED" and I do not want to go into details. I always carry 2 (two) 380 grams (large) cans of fresh bear spray: one in my chest holster and the other in my waist belt holster. The beauty of the chest holster is that I do not have to draw the can: just touch it with my finger and in a split of a second I can fire at the target quite accurately. A "generic" bear spray works on charging bears about 90% of the time but the cases when the bear continued the charge after being sprayed show that the the person run out of the spray using a small can. That is why one should use a fresh fully charged large (380g) can and/or preferably carry a second spare can. Furthermore, proper use of spray requires a regular target practice just like shooting a handgun.

Now regarding a generic "handgun" on a charging grizzly or even a black bear tickles me laughing. This is just like sticking a thumb tack into rear end of a charging bull. WHAT CALIBER WOULD ONE LIKE TO USE on a charging grizzly? It has been documented in the literature that a charging grizzly hit by a .375 H&H magnum rifle managed to run 300 yards and finish off the hunter even though its heart was totally destroyed by the rifle bullet. I love my 12 GA 3.5 inch tactical defender but would NEVER dream to shoot it into any bear (I have another use for it). I enjoy shooting handguns from .17 olympic competition target pistols through all calibers .20 - .22 - 9mm - .38 .357 Mag - .40 - .44 Mag - .45 Colt ACP and I get even kicks from shooting full house .44 Mag - it tickles my palm like my little sweetheart. But I would NEVER even consider shooting anything like that into a bear. Maybe .454 Casull - I thought about it when I used to be young and foolish but NOT anymore. Yes, there are handguns suitable for the job (without going into details I just mention "Bear Gun" - go and find what it is...) But who has the money to pay for such big boomers and for the ammo (we are talking here about thousands of $)? And more importantly who has the physique, strength, and endurance to handle the recoil and hundreds of rounds of target practice to be able to handle such monster reliably and efficiently? Originally US army introduced 1911 Colt .45 as a standard sidearm for rank and file officers. Not anymore since the end II WW. Why? Even .45 proved to be too much to handle for an average Joe. Elite special forces still use it: Navy Seals, Delta Force, some FBI, UKSF, UKSAS..., but NOT an average Joe in the bush. And yet .45 is just a miserable pipsqueek against a charging grizzly and make him/her even madder and deadlier! Give me a break and forget about using handguns for defense against bears by an average hunter, fisherman, camper, hiker etc - unless he/she is bent on a suicidal mission!

So we know that bear spray is 90% efficient, maybe even more if you carry a large can (or 2) in a chest holster. Am I satisfied with having almost 10% chance to get badly hurt in a bear attack? Some days I even like it - it is an extra transcendental thrill to realize how small and insignificant I am against Mother Nature. Some days I do not like those 10% chance to end up in grizzly droppings. So what now? Then you must have perseverance of a hard working mule and carry a modern .45- 70 Government Guide Gun lever action with max full handloads or better yet .450 Marlin. It is small, very light, inexpensive, lever action handles faster and is more accurate than a handgun, recovery after a shot is faster with a shoulder stock than using a handgun, and it has enough power to handle even an elephant (with some artistic license) if you can take a little "kick". Can you learn to shoot it? If you are so scared about your precious EGO then certainly you shall if you are worth your salt! And some people actually get ecstatic when getting some occasional "KICK" from your sweetheart! So you see, The Duke was always right with his favorite lever action in hand. What is the best about this gun? It is NOT restricted so you can perfectly legally carry it everywhere. Even in the provincial and national parks or in the cities provided that you get a nice little safe handy case. You can take it with you camping and fishing. And it is an excellent bush "deer gun" with light loads. There is a beauty currently in the Browning catalog called .450 Marlin BLR. It is available in stainless steel and can be taken apart so it is not much bigger than a large handgun. Besides the price the only problem with it is that it is in such a high demand that Browning cannot keep sufficient supply. Do NOT buy that fancy, expensive, luxury Browning, the original Marlin manufacture will do the job excellently and save you a big bundle.




alright earth muffin, one must ask? with all of your statistics, have you ever been in this situation? tell you what buddy you can read all of those piles of books and statistics that you would like but untill you have " Been there done that" i wouldnt preach to hard as i have " been there done that" and it dont quite work like it does in the text books you speak of.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

[QUOTE=Sako123;1957407]I am comfortable in letting Darwin's natural selection take place.

As for the topic of handguns, I again feel very fortunate to live in a country that will make it next to impossible for someone other than law enforcement to legally carry one. This will never change in Canada.

Just my thoughts as a bow and rifle hunter, and I think a vast majority of Canadian gun owners and hunters agree.[/QUOTE

:shark:

[mad mountain mike]

alright earth muffin, one must ask? with all of your statistics, have you ever been in this situation? tell you what buddy you can read all of those piles of books and statistics that you would like but untill you have " Been there done that" i wouldnt preach to hard as i have " been there done that" and it dont quite work like it does in the text books you speak of.

If there are people on this forum who have been on the ground with a grizzly bear I would sure like to know some details so that I may alter my habits or thought process if necessary. Twice in my hunting career I have been closer to bears than I wanted to be, both times I reached for my bear spray. In both incidents the bears showed no interest in me and just carried on their way without me having to deploy the spray. I can tell you this, at less than 40yards these predators look huge and I am not sure that I could have stopped it with one shot from my 300wsm if things would have gone that way.
I read somewhere " you can't judge a man's actions in a bear attack unless you have been on the ground with a bear yourself ". I certainly believe this to be true, I am not trying to judge anyone but looking for first hand experience so that I may make informed decisions in the future.

[foxhunter540]

like i stated nothing meaner than a mother bear.... if her young are in danger... bear spray works in most case's as well as a gun rifle or hand gun.... but when a mother bear is protecting her young she will die for them... simple as that take your spray and get between her and the youngins and test for your self... which then you can then state it works if you live.... 2 clips into this bear and she still had the determantion to kill..... think about it most bear encounters in studies are just lone bears and scared off easy people have been mauled in this vast country packing bear spray as well........so does it work MAYBE if the bear has it in there head your done your done

[winger7mm]

2 mags? so thats what about 8-10 shots each?? Now given that the bear had continued her assault even after the gun shots let alone being hit, bears can move fast, yet he still managed to drop mag and load up another. So lets say the bear was hit 6 out of the 20 shots. Iv never been shot before so I cant say on behalf of the bear but I would imagine it would hurt like hell.

Now you gave the bear a shot of spray and it now has you on the ground by your head......... A bears eye is a small target to gouge out at this point.

The fact the bear showed determintation after being hit multiple times, I would assume the attack would have continued regardless of spray or not. What do you do when the spray doesnt work?? surrender to death. What did Robert do after the first mag didnt work, loaded up more

[209x50]

Nobody says anybody has to wear bear spray, rifle, shotgun, handgun or clothes for that matter. You make your own choice and be happy with it. The only person that your choice will impact is you and I would never presume to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't pack for protection.
As I said in my first post thank god this fellow survived. I have no problem with the fact he was packing a handgun - none. It should be a choice available to all of us. I'd still just pack my spray but that is my choice. My spray weighs less than a pound. My 44 with a full cylinder and holster about 5 times that. I've done my research, had my scrapes with bears and I know what makes me comfortable.
Make your choice and move on. I don't see the value in bickering with someone else over their choice!!!!

[mad mountain mike]

2 mags? so thats what about 8-10 shots each?? Now given that the bear had continued her assault even after the gun shots let alone being hit, bears can move fast, yet he still managed to drop mag and load up another. So lets say the bear was hit 6 out of the 20 shots. Iv never been shot before so I cant say on behalf of the bear but I would imagine it would hurt like hell.

Now you gave the bear a shot of spray and it now has you on the ground by your head......... A bears eye is a small target to gouge out at this point.

The fact the bear showed determintation after being hit multiple times, I would assume the attack would have continued regardless of spray or not. What do you do when the spray doesnt work?? surrender to death. What did Robert do after the first mag didnt work, loaded up more
You may be right Winger but as stated by 209x50 bears are programmed to accept pain during an attack wether it be from another bear or bullets. Bear spray affects the respiratory system of the bear causing it to briefly loose it's breath, a sensation I'm sure it would never have experience before and thus hopefully prompting it to break off the attack.

[pseelk]

When I'm in grizzly country hunting,my 7mag is loaded ,safty on and always at the ready,not because I'm in grizzly country but because I am hunting.I am not paranoid,I am prepared.I have been in close proximimty to several of our top preditors and have never had to shoot one yet.But I do not let my gaurd down ,I am always ready and would not hesitate if things went sideways.I do not carry bear spray and that is my choice.

[colin455]

I am comfortable in letting Darwin's natural selection take place.

As for the topic of handguns, I again feel very fortunate to live in a country that will make it next to impossible for someone other than law enforcement to legally carry one. This will never change in Canada.

Just my thoughts as a bow and rifle hunter, and I think a vast majority of Canadian gun owners and hunters agree.

ROFL! You must belong to "the 95% of Americans that back restrictive firearm laws" but could only generate 100 or so for a 'mass' protest.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the MAJORITY disagree with your stance.
You and Darwin can let yourself get eaten to your hearts content. I'll protect myself.
You also made an odd statement with "to legally carry one". I'd sure be more comfortable knowing that anyone I met in the bush carrying a handgun for defensive purposes passed a stringent background check and was properly trained and tested. It's far from impossible to illegally carry one. Criminals do it EVERY DAY. Law abiding civilians can get and do have permits for just such a thing.
I carry a defensive long gun from time to time because I chose to follow the laws and not carry a handgun without a permit.

[Sako123]

ROFL! You must belong to "the 95% of Americans that back restrictive firearm laws" but could only generate 100 or so for a 'mass' protest.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the MAJORITY disagree with your stance.
You and Darwin can let yourself get eaten to your hearts content. I'll protect myself.
You also made an odd statement with "to legally carry one". I'd sure be more comfortable knowing that anyone I met in the bush carrying a handgun for defensive purposes passed a stringent background check and was properly trained and tested. It's far from impossible to illegally carry one. Criminals do it EVERY DAY. Law abiding civilians can get and do have permits for just such a thing.
I carry a defensive long gun from time to time because I chose to follow the laws and not carry a handgun without a permit.
I am not an American and do not back "restrictive" gun laws.....I just support the existing gun laws that are in effect in Canada. I think that now the LG registry is rightfully dead that we have a reasonable balance.

Just my thoughts as a gun owner, and I am not ashamed of that position nor will I be bullied into the NRA fanatical fear mongering of everyone being armed with a handgun is a right.....and everybody that doesn't agree must be anti-gun.

I am not saying for anyone to choose one weapon over the other....put on your big boy pants and choose for yourself. It would just suck to get caught illegally carrying a handgun and be prohibited from possessing firearms from between 5-10 years.

[digiphantom]

alright earth muffin, one must ask? with all of your statistics, have you ever been in this situation? tell you what buddy you can read all of those piles of books and statistics that you would like but untill you have " Been there done that" i wouldnt preach to hard as i have " been there done that" and it dont quite work like it does in the text books you speak of.

Yeah, I have been there and done all kind of nonsense trying to learn... I get excited watching grizzlies - but only from a safe distance. I prefer safe adventures, be it watching grizzlies, safe **x, or diving among feeding sharks which is my favorite and I do it almost every year. With a grizz the first commandment is avoidance of a close encounter, just NOT putting any pressure on them. It takes a lot of outdoor experience to detect a grizz before he/she detects you. Knowledge of the terrain, likely places where they might be hiding, reading the signs, tracks, dislodged rocks, broken twigs or blades of grass... You can smell them quite from a distance (at least I sometimes can) and you can hear them. I am VERY old man now and hearing is my weak spot because of my target shooting hobbies (like many other old hunters) so I wear "Wolf Ears" in the bush - electronic earphones amplifying the outside sounds but eliminating the gun blast. And then there is that SIXTH SENSE - sensing that high mental charge when you KNOW that there IS something there - but you do not hear and do not see anything. Usually I notice a bear before I am noticed. Then it takes war of nerves to read its behavior to avoid a close encounter. But sometimes it does not work that way: I remember hiking Picklejar lake trail and feeling high tension electrical charge in the air. I knew that grizzly is close but did not see or hear anything. The 15 inch wide ridge trail was the only sensible route: 10 inch to one side 90 degrees wall into a 150 yards deep gorge and on the other side impenetrable dense bush. ANYTHING what walked there must have used that trail. Then after about an hour I started seeing upturned rocks on the trail - another sign. Then deep on the bottom of the gorge I saw big monster bruin walking in the same direction - so they were there. I was relieved that he is in a safe distance deep down. However very soon a familiar smell hit my nostrils - something was just in front of me hidden by the curving in the trail. I went ever so slowly - and when I turned the curve, they were there: mama grizz and two yearling cubs, no more than 15-17 yards away from me. Apparently they walked the high trail to keep a distance from the male down in the gorge. I was scared holding the bear spray ready. It was getting late and dark and I HAD to pass by them to get to my car further down the trail. It was a war of nerves - she smelled me and looked at me with anger in her eyes. I very slowly and quietly backed into deeper bush. She said angrily something to her cubs, and they slowly moved from the trail the other way. I waited for a while watching them. They calmed down and I extremely slowly skirted the widening trail on the other side. When I passed them I felt an uncontrollable urge to run down to the car. Instead, I walked backwards very slowly with bear spray ready in my hand and I safely returned to the car. I had some other similar experiences with grizzlies and the most important principle always is AVOIDANCE of surprise close encounters by reading the terrain, nature signs and bear behavior.

Well with blacks the situation is quite different. When hunting in the bush and in the mountains I ALWAYS carry a high performance magnum rifle: rarely 7 mm Rem mag, usually .308 Norma mag or .338 Win mag in semi-auto which is ballistically quite close to the fashionable .338 Lapua mag sniper caliber. This is quite big boomer for blacks but the big heavy bullet knocks them down quickly without causing too much damage to the pelt. When I was young and short on cash, I fed my large family during a part of the year delicious black bear gulash. But not always it is so simple with blacks. It was in the Swan Hills area hunting for spring bear when I came to a large circular dried up swamp opening, bordered by a dense bush on the perimeter. I was sort of in the middle but on my right there was a tongue of bush coming very close to my position. I was glassing the bush on the perimeter when I noticed a small black motion behind and below the first row of spruce trees directly ahead of me. Then it disappeared. Few seconds later another motion, this time more to the right... Again disappeared, then re-appeared further to the right. Remember that the swamp was CIRCULAR and by moving to the RIGHT, the object had to end up in the tongue ending just very close to me. I timed amount of time since the black object disappeared until it appeared again. Then I estimated the distance it traveled during that time. Then it was everything very simple: I calculated the speed of the motion behind the trees. When the object disappeared, I started counting the seconds, multiplied by the known speed and estimated the EXACT LOCATION of the invisible object behind trees. I followed that calculated location with my eyes and when the black spot appeared again, it was EXACTLY in the calculated locations (yessir, I have a Ph.D. in math and stats) and it was fun. But suddenly it WAS NOT FUN ANYMORE. I realized that the black object is a large black bear getting dangerously very close to me and I was being hunted. All that fun was actually a predatory attack on me. Actually I started shaking. I did not bother with a bear spray: I had my 7 mm Rem mag ready. I calculated the next expected point of appearance of the black bear, now some 45 yards away from me. Yes indeed, the head peeped out from under the low branches EXACTLY where my scope was aimed. One shot and it was all over. Very exciting experience. You can hunt your bears with your handguns if you want, (even though I'd prefer if you don't because I do not want to be shot instead of a bear by some trigger happy gaucho). I prefer to hunt them with my mathematics and my magnum rifles. Actually the adventure had very unexpected ending. Since it was such unusual experience, I decided to have front half of the bear body mounted on the wall just like I imagined the real attack would happen. The taxidermist did excellent job but asked me sheepishly if he can keep the skull. Reluctantly he explained why. Apparently the attacking bear was until recently lactating female who had a cub that spring (I got her at the very end of the spring season). The taxidermist concluded that she and the cub were most likely attacked by a male who killed the baby. She was defending the cub, the male was much bigger, hit her over her head and COMPLETELY SPLIT HER SKULL. This was a great rarity! She must have had a terrible headache which made her very angry. In addition she could not eat and was apparently very hungry, cranky and full of hatred of this unfair world. I kept the skull and have it on the wall hanging just below the mount of her (imagined) fierce attack.

There are many ways how to hunt and everybody has his preferences. When I was young I shot a lot of game. Now I am very old and do not like killing so much. I always carry a camera with telephoto lens in my hand AND a rifle on my back. Is this good way to hunt? No, not really. Last spring bear season I went to my favorite areas around Peace River. I KNEW that there are BIG bears there, both blacks and grizzlies. I thought I was fully prepared: I practiced shooting daily, firing hundreds of shots every day... from my camera, that is. I left the car and started walking down the trail, camera with big telephoto in my hands, .338 Win mag BAR on my back (did not have time to get to the range much recently because of the camera work), and the bear spray on my side. I walked barely 50 yards from the car when the trail curved to the left. I was sensing some tension in the air, so I was fully ready to shoot - that is with the camera, not the gun. I slowly entered the trail curve - and there he was, perhaps about 10 yards from me. No, luckily it was not a grizz, it was a monster black bear. He was standing on his back haunches, perhaps 8 feet tall, with his back to me and feeding on young green leaves. I am 6 foot man but I had to look steeply up to see his head. It was a fantastic opportunity for a master shot ... with the camera. But when you fire a camera, it makes a slight metalic click and bears hear very well. I was about 1 - 2 bounds away from him and decided that shooting the camera was NOT very safe. I eased the camera away, and got the .338 BAR Win mag off my shoulder. I slowly worked the action to feed quietly the round in to the empty chamber. SSHHSSHHSSH it went ever so slowly swishing instead of a usual quick click. I NEW THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG! I was so excited and the round jammed half way through. This happens when you neglect your range target practice. I tried to work the action again but it was frozen solid. The King-Bear heard the commotion and looked slowly my way. We were staring into each other's eyes for quite a while, perhaps some 5 seconds if not more. I tried to "stare him down" but I was shaking and my eyes radiated utmost terror. I realized that this is the end of my profligate life and that the Bear-God is coming to collect my overdue accounts for miseries I have caused to his kin through my foolish life. But suddenly his head slowly nodded and I discerned a light shadow of a smile in his eyes. HE KNEW WHAT HAPPENED AND HE WAS LAUGHING AT ME for my foolishness. Then it took just one gigantic bound the other way and he was gone.

Bears are the source of greatest excitement in my life and I hope to spend greater part of my remaining life among them, always admiring them and always fearing them. Apparently bighorn1 does not trust bookish people and I do not blame him. But some bookish people might even be "bear people".

[Okotokian]

alright earth muffin, one must ask? with all of your statistics, have you ever been in this situation? tell you what buddy you can read all of those piles of books and statistics that you would like but untill you have " Been there done that" i wouldnt preach to hard as i have " been there done that" and it dont quite work like it does in the text books you speak of.

Bighorn, you do understand that just because you shot a griz to avoid an attack and lived to tell does not mean that your experince of a single event outweighs statistical evidence drawn from hundreds of cases. It's like a guy who survives a crash without wearing a seatbelt declaring that not wearing one is safer than wearing one. He just got lucky.

And tell us about the griz attack you survived.

[SkytopBrewster]

Carry bear spray on one hip and the .44 mag on the other, problem solved, up to you which one you try first. That should be the only decision one has to make if you ever found yourself in that predicament. In my area one is more likely to run into a big cat rather than a Grizz .....

[badgerman1995]

What exactly is the difference between carrying a rifle, handgun,shotgun? Pistol more accessible in a holster, Besides this guys "Percieved threat" just happened to half maul him no?, nothing percieved bout that. Your comments just goes to show the Liberal type brainwashing "They" want us to think.Yes,if you allowed people to carry a sidearm in the bush of course there would be mass murder & mayhem in the streets of Calgary?

X2

[Okotokian]

Yes,if you allowed people to carry a sidearm in the bush of course there would be mass murder & mayhem in the streets of Calgary?

ok, before I start let me say I have no problem with handguns in the woods, My comment is more theoretical. But lets say a law was passed to allow that. Would that not for all intents and purposes be analagous to enacting a concealed carry law? I mean, if you were stopped on the streets of Calgary at 2 a.m. with a handgun what would stop you from simply saying "oh, I'm on my way to K country to do some hiking"?

[digiphantom]

Carry bear spray on one hip and the .44 mag on the other, problem solved, up to you which one you try first. That should be the only decision one has to make if you ever found yourself in that predicament. In my area one is more likely to run into a big cat rather than a Grizz .....

I'd rather carry 2 bear sprays, one on each hip. I am convinced that .44 mag is a great toy-gun for shooting gophers but I would not like to tickle a Grizz with it - he could get angry at me and punish me for being so naive and underestimating his greatness and majesty. For every job there is a fitting tool or even several tools but .44 mag is NOT up to the task here. See my earlier post in this forum.

[elkhunter11]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a report of the events leading up to the attack. Can anyone that actually knows the details confirm if the bear charged before or after the first shot was fired?

[SkytopBrewster]

I'd rather carry 2 bear sprays, one on each hip. I am convinced that .44 mag is a great toy-gun for shooting gophers but I would not like to tickle a Grizz with it - he could get angry at me and punish me for being so naive and underestimating his greatness and majesty. For every job there is a fitting tool or even several tools but .44 mag is NOT up to the task here. See my earlier post in this forum.

Fine,how bout a 500 S&W, would that be better?, I don't know, maybe.

[badgerman1995]

ok, before I start let me say I have no problem with handguns in the woods, My comment is more theoretical. But lets say a law was passed to allow that. Would that not for all intents and purposes be analagous to enacting a concealed carry law? I mean, if you were stopped on the streets of Calgary at 2 a.m. with a handgun what would stop you from simply saying "oh, I'm on my way to K country to do some hiking"?

Do you think that a criminals are really going to obey the laws anyway? To be able to carry would at least discourage criminals from robbery etc.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

[digiphantom]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a report of the events leading up to the attack. Can anyone that actually knows the details confirm if the bear charged before or after the first shot was fired?

Certainly this is a fact of top importance and nobody seems to know or at least is not talking. Equally important is the caliber of the handgun: with some calibers you can keep on shooting and the Grizz will not stop laughing because it tickles so much (OK OK, I know that old Indian women used to shoot a Grizz with one WELL placed shot from a .22 but we are not up to that mental standard nowadays) , while with other "bear-size" calibers one decently placed shot will terminate a Grizz - or for all that matters an elephant or rhino. Alberta Oudoors claims to be professionally edited magazine but it is beyond my comprehension that they would omit mentioning such important details as mentioned above.

[digiphantom]

Fine,how bout a 500 S&W, would that be better?, I don't know, maybe.

You got it - this is what S&W calls The Bear Gun and which I mentioned earlier. Would I recommend it? Most likely not. WAY TOO DIFFICULT TO SHOOT!!! Are you a macho-man AND masochist enough to shoot it? Just go and try it if you can find it. WAY TOO EXPENSIVE, both gun and the ammo, it is only for men of independent means. WAY TOO HEAVY. The original short barreled S&W Bear Gun is prohibited in Canada, even though longer barrels are not. If you MUST have a gun there is a better tool. Read my first post in this forum. And it is perfectly legal, not restricted, almost same size, weight and power as 500 S&W. And it is very inexpensive!

[Sooner]

Been bluff charged by a young grizz, we were on quads. He came up so fast. Thank god he bluffed. No chance to stop and get a gun out. If i was walking along, highly doubt i could have got the gun off the shoulder, aimed and get more then 1 shot off. I am a believer that bear spray, one on each hip, would be better in a attack. I wonder what the guy who got attacked thinks now, obviously the gun saved his life, would he give it up for spray now? To each his own i guess. Until you see how fast they can move, you have no idea.

[badgerman1995]

My question is, will pepper spray stop a griz? I've seen men still fight after being sprayed. I'm not saying that a handgun would stop it either, I just think that I'd prefer at least somewhat of lethal force over pepper spray.

[Pathfinder76]

Just a shot - because there are no bears?

So bear spray wouldn't work on a leopard, lion, Cape buffalo etc. ?

[bessiedog]

Swears by bear spray.
She and a friend were hiking around Turtle mountain, they surprised 2 griz on a moose kill.

Both roared and charged.. The spray stopped them in their track. All four participants retreated.

She swears that stuff saved her bacon.

I'm inclined to believe her

I tried shooting 7 clays on a mound at short range with a pistol grip.. Quick shooting from the hip.....
Only got 4.

[280Hunter]

Carry bear spray on one hip and the .44 mag on the other, problem solved, up to you which one you try first. That should be the only decision one has to make if you ever found yourself in that predicament. In my area one is more likely to run into a big cat rather than a Grizz .....I agree!

So bear spray wouldn't work on a leopard, lion, Cape buffalo etc. ?
I was wondering the same thing :thinking-006:

[Guitarplayingfish]

anyone have a link for the article ?

x2

[Okotokian]

Do you think that a criminals are really going to obey the laws anyway? To be able to carry would at least discourage criminals from robbery etc.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

That wasn't my point. You misunderstand. I'm simply wondering whether legal carry in "the woods" wouldn't practically translate into legal carry everywhere.

But as to your point, would it discourage criminals from robbery? I don't know. Maybe. But I'm down in the states right now. Doesn't seem to discourage crime down here. If it did, it would be much safer here than in Calgary. Hard to judge.

But here's the bit of mythology. We always say that gun laws don't discourage criminals from having guns, only honest people. The inference is that every criminal has a gun because they are so (supposedly) incredibly easy to get illegally. Yet more murders are committed with knives in Canada than guns, so most murderers don't actually have a gun. Something to chew on....

[elkhunter11]

That wasn't my point. You misunderstand. I'm simply wondering whether legal carry in "the woods" wouldn't practically translate into legal carry everywhere.

It's legal to carry long guns in the woods, yet I don't see too many people walking around with them in the city.

[Okotokian]

It's legal to carry long guns in the woods, yet I don't see too many people walking around with them in the city.

But it's legal if you wanted to, barring civic laws to the contrary. You could walk down 7th avenue beside the c-train with your rifle if you so desired.

[elkhunter11]

But it's legal if you wanted to, barring civic laws to the contrary.You could walk down 7th avenue beside the c-train with your rifle if you so desired.

So without breaking any laws would it be legal to walk down 7th avenue beside the c-train with your rifle if you so desired?

[Okotokian]

You could walk down 7th avenue beside the c-train with your rifle if you so desired.

So without breaking it really wouldn't be legal to walk down 7th avenue beside the c-train with your rifle if you so desired, now would it?

So quote me the law you would be breaking.

[elkhunter11]

So quote me the law you would be breaking.

Try carrying an openly displayed rifle or shotgun in that location, and see what happens. If the police see you, they will tell you what laws you are violating.

[Bard]

Here is a link that has decent detail of what happened and that STARS flew in to save him. Looks like he unloaded his clip into the bear when she was on top of him.

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2013/01/16/get-your-tickets-now

[Okotokian]

Try carrying an openly displayed rifle or shotgun in that location, and see what happens. If the police see you, they will tell you what laws you are violating.
And what law would that be? I'm asking. Please tell me. I've walked downtown with a rifle before. Go ahead, turn me in.

[bighorn1]

Bighorn, you do understand that just because you shot a griz to avoid an attack and lived to tell does not mean that your experince of a single event outweighs statistical evidence drawn from hundreds of cases. It's like a guy who survives a crash without wearing a seatbelt declaring that not wearing one is safer than wearing one. He just got lucky.

And tell us about the griz attack you survived.

Do i see anything here anywhere that says i survived an acutal grizzly attack or that i shot a i shot a bear?

I said unless you have been in that situation and by that situation what i meant was that it may have been neccesary to shoot at the bear in the event bear spray did work to scare them off .

This is the situation that i was in, i was bluff chagred and unloaded the spray, it turned the bear long enough that i was able to run like hell and luckily find a large tree that i was able to climb. the bear kept paceing around back and forth, after some time and a few rounds in the dirt he eventually buggered off.

what i am saying is that if the bear would not have turned at the spray there would not have been a hope in hell of getting the rifle off the shoulder and getting a shot off.

A sidearm may provide you a fighting chance in a situation like this, with my rifle i wouldnt have ever got a round chambered little own shot at the bear before it was to late. I eneded up very fortunate that things worked out the way they did.

[elkhunter11]

And what law would that be? I'm asking. Please tell me. I've walked downtown with a rifle before. Go ahead, turn me in.

If someone reports an individual walking downtown with an uncased firearm, do you really believe that the police won't respond. Even if there are no bylaws requiring firearms to be cased in city limits, I would bet on the police responding and treating you as though you are breaking some law.

[Okotokian]

If someone reports an individual walking downtown with an uncased firearm, do you really believe that the police won't respond. Even if there are no bylaws requiring firearms to be cased in city limits, I would bet on the police responding and treating you as though you are breaking some law.
you're ducking the issue. I don't care if police "respond", pee themselves, or go for a donut. What's the law that's being broken? What would you be charged with?

Saying "I don't know, perhaps I was wrong" is a perfectly acceptable response Elk. ;)

[argobenny]

this guy is as much a criminal as you are when you drive 140 down hi-way # 2

[elkhunter11]

you're ducking the issue. I don't care if police "respond", pee themselves, or go for a donut. What's the law that's being broken? What would you be charged with?


I am not saying that the result will be charges, but I would be quite sure that if someone reports you, the first reaction by the police, will be to treat you as if you are doing something illegal. And the end result, is that you would be no more of a threat, if you carried a handgun instead. For some reason, there is an element of society that is perfectly okay with seeing people carrying long guns, yet those same people change there attitude entirely, if a handgun is present. It's as if the person changes with the length of the firearm.

[badgerman1995]

That wasn't my point. You misunderstand. I'm simply wondering whether legal carry in "the woods" wouldn't practically translate into legal carry everywhere.

But as to your point, would it discourage criminals from robbery? I don't know. Maybe. But I'm down in the states right now. Doesn't seem to discourage crime down here. If it did, it would be much safer here than in Calgary. Hard to judge.

But here's the bit of mythology. We always say that gun laws don't discourage criminals from having guns, only honest people. The inference is that every criminal has a gun because they are so (supposedly) incredibly easy to get illegally. Yet more murders are committed with knives in Canada than guns, so most murderers don't actually have a gun. Something to chew on....

I see your point :)

[argobenny]

2 mags? so thats what about 8-10 shots each?? Now given that the bear had continued her assault even after the gun shots let alone being hit, bears can move fast, yet he still managed to drop mag and load up another. So lets say the bear was hit 6 out of the 20 shots. Iv never been shot before so I cant say on behalf of the bear but I would imagine it would hurt like hell.

Now you gave the bear a shot of spray and it now has you on the ground by your head......... A bears eye is a small target to gouge out at this point.

The fact the bear showed determintation after being hit multiple times, I would assume the attack would have continued regardless of spray or not. What do you do when the spray doesnt work?? surrender to death. What did Robert do after the first mag didnt work, loaded up more

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a report of the events leading up to the attack. Can anyone that actually knows the details confirm if the bear charged before or after the first shot was fired?

the article said the bear was behind him, a few feet from him and attacked. not sure if you would call that a charge or a bound.

[winger7mm]

Here is a link that has decent detail of what happened and that STARS flew in to save him. Looks like he unloaded his clip into the bear when she was on top of him.

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2013/01/16/get-your-tickets-now

Thanks for the link :)

Okay so I understand that the bear was pretty well ontop of him before he could react, He had pistol in hand and ready to go. how would bear spray have helped him in HIS situation?? Seems to me that releasing spray would have probably killed him in HIS situation. Handgun worked didnt have to be accurate, just stuck the barrel to the body and let em fly.

[argobenny]

grinr, you hit the nail right on the head. the choice was a conscious one. have it and not need it, no one knows. need it and have it, is what was chose. avoidance is always the first choice but as you so wisely stated " doing the wrong things in bear country while bow hunting results in close encounters of the sharp tooth, fang and claw" kind. kudos to all thos who realize that each incident is different. know hunter in there right mind would want to hurt a defenceless bear. but a smart hunter prepares for the worst and hopes for the best, be trained and confident. there was for sure some luck involved, good and bad. as far as what went down that day, i would have done the exact same thing, if it where me, :-). fight for your life with what you have.

[argobenny]

I just wondered if anyone knows if there have been legal ramifications of possibly illegal handgun carry since Mr. Bennett shot the bear with a handgun, according to the article. Please note that I am not flaming nor voicing an opinion, just asking for information.

apparently no charges

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2013/01/16/get-your-tickets-now

[elkhunter11]

the article said the bear was behind him, a few feet from him and attacked.

From the article

Bennett found himself in every hunter’s worst nightmare. He was on his knees, nose-to-nose with a 771-pound grizzly bear

As well, there appears to be only one person present, with nobody else to confirm the story. Perhaps it happened exactly as the article stated,perhaps it didn't happen exactly as the article states.

[mad mountain mike]

Do i see anything here anywhere that says i survived an acutal grizzly attack or that i shot a i shot a bear?

I said unless you have been in that situation and by that situation what i meant was that it may have been neccesary to shoot at the bear in the event bear spray did work to scare them off .

This is the situation that i was in, i was bluff chagred and unloaded the spray, it turned the bear long enough that i was able to run like hell and luckily find a large tree that i was able to climb. the bear kept paceing around back and forth, after some time and a few rounds in the dirt he eventually buggered off.

what i am saying is that if the bear would not have turned at the spray there would not have been a hope in hell of getting the rifle off the shoulder and getting a shot off.


A sidearm may provide you a fighting chance in a situation like this, with my rifle i wouldnt have ever got a round chambered little own shot at the bear before it was to late. I eneded up very fortunate that things worked out the way they did.

This is very valuable information, it sounds to me that the bear spray worked as it was designed to and gave you a chance to escape. Had you used a side arm instead you may very well have just aggravated the situation to the point where you were injured or killed. In the end I'm glad you and the bear escaped without injury.

[Fishhound1]

I am happy to see that Mr.Bennet came out of this ordeal alive, it is obvious that his hand gun is why he survived. this article has nothing to do with weather or not he should have had bear spray or not, it is the fact his hand gun saved his life

I believe that in this country it should not be that difficult for the government to set up a licencing system where those that want to carry a hand gun in the bush can be licenced to do so, after all as can be easily seen from this thread not everyone would want one,

If you can qualify to own a restricted weapon you should be able to take it in the bush hunting if you so choose.

These kind of stories is the reason I will not go into bear country unarmed

[winger7mm]

As well, there appears to be only one person present, with nobody else to confirm the story. Perhaps it happened exactly as the article stated,perhaps it didn't happen exactly as the article states.

Those quotes could be taken a few ways. The way I take it. Is perspective. Standing and being that close to a grizz and being pounced on is one thing. But being on your kees face to face, nose to nose and being pounced on. Sorry to say elkhunter11 you need to not nit pick so bad.

“I was crouched down on my knees and then when she jumped on me, she knocked me backwards on my back, she was on top of me,” Bennett said. Just because the bear was behind him doesnt mean he had his back to her.

[steve]

Who wrote the article?

[winger7mm]

Who wrote the article?

In AO it was written by Tj Schwanky

[argobenny]

Thanks for the link :)

Okay so I understand that the bear was pretty well ontop of him before he could react, He had pistol in hand and ready to go. how would bear spray have helped him in HIS situation?? Seems to me that releasing spray would have probably killed him in HIS situation. Handgun worked didnt have to be accurate, just stuck the barrel to the body and let em fly.

Thats right !!!

[Thinlizzy]

Off topic but hope your doing well Tj!
Hope you return when your ready.

[elkhunter11]

Those quotes could be taken a few ways. The way I take it. Is perspective. Standing and being that close to a grizz and being pounced on is one thing. But being on your kees face to face, nose to nose and being pounced on. Sorry to say elkhunter11 you need to not nit pick so bad.

“I was crouched down on my knees and then when she jumped on me, she knocked me backwards on my back, she was on top of me,” Bennett said. Just because the bear was behind him doesnt mean he had his back to her.

When such trauma occurs, a persons recollection of what happened may or may not be totally accurate.As well, some early posters seem to be implying that there may be more to the story than was reported. That is why I am interested in just how the incident played out, and whether the shooting actually started before the bear made contact or after. You would have to be very determined to be tackled by a 700lb+ bear, and still be able to maintain control of the gun long enough to empty it into the bear.

[winger7mm]

When such trauma occurs, a persons recollection of what happened may or may not be totally accurate.As well, some early posters seem to be implying that there may be more to the story than was reported. That is why I am interested in just how the incident played out, and whether the shooting actually started before the bear made contact or after. You would have to be very determined to be tackled by a 700lb+ bear, and still be able to maintain control of the gun long enough to empty it into the bear.

Of course a guys mind would be going 12 hundred miles an hour and it would be hard to recollect. The guys who recovered the bear would be able to say for sure, If the bear charged after being shot it would be pretty easy to see, compared to the rest of the entry wounds in the body going from stomach to back or close to.

I dont think it took much determination, He was aware something bad was about to happen hence having the gun ready. But overall it simply because the absolute instint of any animal after the attack started.... Fight or flight, easy to see flight was not an option, It would have been instinct to stick the gun in the bears gut and pull the trigger, no thought involved.
Kinda the same thing when your friend "fakes" throwing a ball or something at you and you raise your hand, you donty think about doing it, you just do (bad comparision I know, just used as an example of instinct)

[Hagalaz]

Just bought the May AO magazine tonight, looking forward to reading it and getting the whole story.

[IR_mike]

The handgun played a part in saveing his life.............end of thread. :)

[foxhunter540]

the will to live took over.... every single one of us if we had same thing...would been the same reaction......

[KegRiver]

No time to draw a gun but time for bear spray?? :confused:
Thanks anyway,but I'll take my chances with the gun and shoot before it gets that close.

Good point.

It also occurs to me that bear spray would not be effective after contact had been made. IE bear has you down.

It would be very hard to aim the spray where it has to go, if one was down, and especially if a bear was chewing on ones head. A rifle wouldn't be much better.
A handgun on the other hand, could be quiet effective under such circumstances.


I'm starting to wonder if the handgun made all the difference in this story.
If so, no wonder the authorities aren't pressing charges.
They sure wouldn't want there to be court testimony that supports the carrying of handguns.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I'm starting to wonder if the handgun made all the difference in this story.
If so, no wonder the authorities aren't pressing charges.
They sure wouldn't want there to be court testimony that supports the carrying of handguns.

Not pressing charges also sends a message of sorts....expect some "copy cat" type stories to happen down the road....I could see people taking the risk of a criminal record and packing their handguns with them now.

The, "he did it and no one did anything to him" mentality will come out.

Again I have no problem packing a handgun if it was legal to do so.... Was a good thing he had a .45 and not a 9mm too....

I will carry a ranch hand or a shottie in the meantime because it is legal to do so.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Grizzly attacks are a common occurance these days. Certainly there are instances where bear spray would not have been an effective deterent, as there have been situations where a Long gun has proven to be impotent.

As such, people should be allowed to carry handguns in Grizzy habitat.


Here is a fantatic first hand account of a 2009 grizzly attack in BC. Worth reading for many reasons. Are you going to discharge pepper spray in your tent? Kind of hard to cycle a rifle bolt and swing that barrel under a collapsed tent. Take note of the BC gov's position regarding these hunting camping on a "Grizzly Bear Migration Path".

Brambles and Rattler GRIZZLY ATTACK sheep adventure
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?40606-Brambles-and-Rattler-GRIZZLY-ATTACK-sheep-adventure&highlight=grizzly+bear+attack+migration

[badgerman1995]

Grizzly attacks are a common occurance these days. Certainly there are instances where bear spray would not have been an effective deterent, as there have been situations where a Long gun has proven to be impotent.

As such, people should be allowed to carry handguns in Grizzy habitat.


Here is a fantatic first hand account of a 2009 grizzly attack in BC. Worth reading for many reasons. Are you going to discharge pepper spray in your tent? Kind of hard to cycle a rifle bolt and swing that barrel under a collapsed tent. Take note of the BC gov's position regarding these hunting camping on a "Grizzly Bear Migration Path".

Brambles and Rattler GRIZZLY ATTACK sheep adventure
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?40606-Brambles-and-Rattler-GRIZZLY-ATTACK-sheep-adventure&highlight=grizzly+bear+attack+migration

Amazing story. They are lucky to be alive.

[argobenny]

From the article



As well, there appears to be only one person present, with nobody else to confirm the story. Perhaps it happened exactly as the article stated,perhaps it didn't happen exactly as the article states.

what was said was, sat and waited for the threat to pass, the bear cub ( 18 m0nths old ) and the sow ran past, hence now behind Bennett. still on his knees he turned to see if they had continued to run passed him down the trail, nope, cub up a tree and sow at the base of the tree, now Bennet had turned 180 degrees to look behind him.

now with a 700 pound mad mother grizzly i would imagine , traumatic or not, 8 inches or eight feet, i'd say they where nose to nose. part of the story that wasn't told was " bear was confiscated, clothes where confiscated and gun was surrendered to fish and wildlife. autopsy and blood analysis done to ensure the bear was not shot before it launched itself onto what it thought was a threat to its young. Bennett was mentally, physically and hardware prepared, never lost consciousness or went into shock. started to perform medical checks and repairs while waiting for help. hence no charges by fish and feathers.

i think it happened closer to "exactly as the article stated, than, perhaps it didn't happen exactly as the article stated.
:snapoutofit:

[PBHunter]

Anyone ever had a face full of pepper spray? I had an unfortunate incident with a can of bear spray ... I left the bear spray in my bag after bow season, totally forgot about it. I then proceded to leave the bag in the truck overnight during the November rifle season. Needless to say, the next morning I was like, wtf is all this red gooey stuff all over the inside of my bag .. well umm, ya, the bear spray froze and leaked out ... have to say, my oh my, my face was on fire for at least 4 hrs ... lips, nose, inside of my throat, just from smelling the "red goo", absolutely terrible... can't imagine actually getting a full blast of this stuff in the eyes, nose, throat, breathing it in, ouch. I can see how bear spray is an effective deterrent, even against an enraged bear, nasty stuff, could totally incapacitate you ... and yes I am an idiot, sometimes ;p

Unfortunate incident this bear attack, glad he survived.

[Hagalaz]

Anyone ever had a face full of pepper spray? I had an unfortunate incident with a can of bear spray ... I left the bear spray in my bag after bow season, totally forgot about it. I then proceded to leave the bag in the truck overnight during the November rifle season. Needless to say, the next morning I was like, wtf is all this red gooey stuff all over the inside of my bag .. well umm, ya, the bear spray froze and leaked out ... have to say, my oh my, my face was on fire for at least 4 hrs ... lips, nose, inside of my throat, just from smelling the "red goo", absolutely terrible... can't imagine actually getting a full blast of this stuff in the eyes, nose, throat, breathing it in, ouch. I can see how bear spray is an effective deterrent, even against an enraged bear, nasty stuff, could totally incapacitate you ... and yes I am an idiot, sometimes ;p

Unfortunate incident this bear attack, glad he survived.

Not a face full of it, no. But I did catch a light misting of it once. Wow, did that suck.

My eyes wouldn't stop tearing up, my nose wouldn't stop running, my lips were burning, and I was feeling rather short of breath. That is on top of the pain it caused.

[Stinky Buffalo]

I received a good dose of it once as well, not a pleasant experience!

[Okotokian]

We still arguing this???? Sheesh. Take bear spray, don't take bear spray. Get naked, slather peanut butter all over yourself and head to the woods for all I care. Just don't tell other impressionable folks that the peanut butter works better for bear defence because you just don't believe those fact-filled studies written by those "pointy-headed elitist academics", and neither should they.

[209x50]

We still arguing this???? Sheesh. Take bear spray, don't take bear spray. Get naked, slather peanut butter all over yourself and head to the woods for all I care. Just don't tell other impressionable folks that the peanut butter works better for bear defence because you just don't believe those fact-filled studies written by those "pointy-headed elitist academics", and neither should they.
OKO STOP RUINING EVERYTHING!!!! With out the relief offered through senseless arguing some folks would just explode..... LOL
(BTW Your post is dead on!)

[Hagalaz]

We still arguing this???? Sheesh. Take bear spray, don't take bear spray. Get naked, slather peanut butter all over yourself and head to the woods for all I care. Just don't tell other impressionable folks that the peanut butter works better for bear defence because you just don't believe those fact-filled studies written by those "pointy-headed elitist academics", and neither should they.

Arguing? No.

We were talking about what it feels like to get sprayed with bear repellant.

[Fulmer]

Well if it was my choice to carry whatever I wanted, combining the research and actual encounters. I think a holster with spray and a handgun in it would be my option. The spray if I have time to stop the charge and hopefully avoid killing the bear, and the handgun if the bear is about to be or already on top of me. In that situation it would seem best to be able to empty a magazine into the bear cause at that point your out of options, a rifle is useless.

Some bears are able to be scared off or avoided but for the one who has decided to eat you.....well I'd like to have an ace in the hole.

[280Hunter]

After reading Roberts story last night, I wonder if he tried for getting head shots if the attack woulda stopped sooner or instantly? Or if he woulda taken 1 well placed shot to the head, when it was point blank before she pounced if it woulda been a better outcome for him.

[elkhunter11]

After reading Roberts story last night, I wonder if he tried for getting head shots if the attack woulda stopped sooner or instantly? Or if he woulda taken 1 well placed shot to the head, when it was point blank before she pounced if it woulda been a better outcome for him.


It would take a pretty much perfect shot to stop a big bear with a 45ACP. When it comes right down to it, the 45ACP is a pathetically poor choice for defense against large bears. I am for allowing people to carry handguns for personal protection in the wilderness, but I certainly would not be carrying a 45ACP.

As well, we still can't be 100% sure, whether he actually fired before the bear made contact with him, or whether the bear was on him before he started firing. If he fired first, because he felt threatened, perhaps him firing is what actually caused the attack? I wasn't there, and all that we have to go on is the reports, that may or may not be telling the story exactly as it happened.

[280Hunter]

It would take a pretty much perfect shot to stop a big bear with a 45ACP. When it comes right down to it, the 45ACP is a pathetically poor choice for defense against large bears. I am for allowing people to carry handguns for personal protection in the wilderness, but I certainly would not be carrying a 45ACP.

As well, we still can't be 100% sure, whether he actually fired before the bear made contact with him, or whether the bear was on him before he started firing. If he fired first, because he felt threatened, perhaps him firing is what actually caused the attack? I wasn't there, and all that we have to go on is the reports, that may or may not be telling the story exactly as it happened.Yeah that's the problem without getting it right from the horses mouth! Who knows what actually took place.

[Nester]

Was he legal to be carrying it?



What handgun was he using?

[280Hunter]

Was he legal to be carrying it?
No he wasn't


What handgun was he using?
.45

[Lefty-Canuck]

I wonder if he always carries when out in the woods?

I wonder if he had any other encounters with bears where he was forced to use the handgun in defence?.... but perhaps those instances went better than this?

I wonder if he knew that family of bears was in the area?....was this the reason he decided to carry the handgun in the first place?

I wonder if given similar circumstances if his choice of sidearm would change or remain the same?

Lots of questions :)

LC

[SonofDixie]

We need to get Bennet himself on here so we can pelt him with all these questions

[elkhunter11]

We need to get Bennet himself on here so we can pelt him with all these questions

Would he actually tell the truth, or would he embellish the story in an attempt to justify illegal possession of the handgun??

[super7mag]

Would he actually tell the truth, or would he embellish the story in an attempt to justify illegal possession of the handgun??

Do you really believe that after being nearly shredded by an angry mamma Grizz you really need to embellish the story!!!! He survived, bear died , too late for woulda coulda shoulda s' . If you voted yes you would carry if given a choice why split hairs about the circumstances of this incident?

[elkhunter11]

Do you really believe that after being nearly shredded by an angry mamma Grizz you really need to embellish the story!!!! He survived, bear died , too late for woulda coulda shoulda s' . If you voted yes you would carry if given a choice why split hairs about the circumstances of this incident?

If he actually instigated the entire attack by shooting at a protected animal, while carrying a restricted weapon, when the bear hadn't actually attacked yet, then I do believe that he might embellish the story, to avoid prosecution for killing a protected animal, and for carrying a restricted weapon illegally.

As far as the authorities are concerned, it's hardly ever too late to punish someone for committing illegal actions, even if they themselves are severely injured as a result of those actions.

[argobenny]

Do you really believe that after being nearly shredded by an angry mamma Grizz you really need to embellish the story!!!! He survived, bear died , too late for woulda coulda shoulda s' . If you voted yes you would carry if given a choice why split hairs about the circumstances of this incident?

Well it's me... check out my previous threads. i was ****ting my pants as the mother grizzly ran past. my defensive training first and for most is to allow the treat to pass. the worst i seen on my trail cam was a pack of wolves that had taken down a calf moose. i, as do most hunters with any type of integrity, respect the grizzly and would never ever provoke an encounter. here i am ask away and hopefully all will learn, as well as myself, signed, Robert Bennett, (argobenny)

[Jamie]

Well it's me... check out my previous threads. i was ****ting my pants as the mother grizzly ran past. my defensive training first and for most is to allow the treat to pass. the worst i seen on my trail cam was a pack of wolves that had taken down a calf moose. i, as do most hunters with any type of integrity, respect the grizzly and would never ever provoke an encounter. here i am ask away and hopefully all will learn, as well as myself, signed, Robert Bennett, (argobenny)

Are you saying you are Robert Bennett?

Jamie

[argobenny]

It would take a pretty much perfect shot to stop a big bear with a 45ACP. When it comes right down to it, the 45ACP is a pathetically poor choice for defense against large bears. I am for allowing people to carry handguns for personal protection in the wilderness, but I certainly would not be carrying a 45ACP.

As well, we still can't be 100% sure, whether he actually fired before the bear made contact with him, or whether the bear was on him before he started firing. If he fired first, because he felt threatened, perhaps him firing is what actually caused the attack? I wasn't there, and all that we have to go on is the reports, that may or may not be telling the story exactly as it happened.

elkhunter11, with all due respect, your an idiot. read the article. read the posts by me, argobenny.
all attempts where made to avoid the encounter. who would bow hunt on the ground knowing a mother grizzly was in the area. you ? i think not. a .45 is the most logical choice for a last defence option. try getting a second shot off with any type of accuracy with one hand on a shot gun. let some bear spray go at point blank range with a 771.62 pound angry, defensive mother grizzly bearing down on you. 45-70 lever action ? the multiple ventilation from the .45 saved my life. most will always choose to be judged by 12 than carried by six, common sense will prevail. very good discussing this with you, good questions.

[argobenny]

Are you saying you are Robert Bennett?

Jamie

love your pic... and yup

[Jamie]

love your pic... and yup

Well, they say every scar tells a story.. You got a great one to tell.

Glad you are here to tell the story.

I got caught once with a Mamma and cub sneaking up behind me. They made it to 30 yards before I figured out what was up.

They chased me and got to about 10 feet before turning off.

Joke around camp was that the only reason she didnt eat me was the fact she slipped in my crap. Funny guys I hang out with.

Never in my life had I experianced such a rush of adreniline. It made me laugh, cry and puke all at the same time.

Nightmares for weeks and shivers for 3 years when I thought of it.

I honestly think part of the reason for my Brown Bear hunt to Alaska was to confront those demons that bear had put in me.. I perfomed well, took my bear at 25 yards with no issues.

Once again, congrats on making it out. Every one THINKS they know how they will react. Now you KNOW how you reacted. Well done.

Jamie

BTW, thanks for the comments about the MONSTER chinook. It was taken at our Lodge, I wasnt the Lucky and skillfull angler. Perhaps this year it will be my turn.

[bingo1010]

Good on you for stepping in, i agree with your statements, try shooting/cycling a long gun with a bear on you..... Not gonna happen. Can you comment on what the wardens said about you having a pistol ? I am in total support of your reasoning and actions

[fat cat]

I understand your feelings and situation, but remember in Canada and Alberta here is your stats, and polls

Grizzly 60%
Muslims 30%
Wolves 08%
Humans 02%

I'm immigrating

[bingo1010]

I understand your feelings and situation, but remember in Canada and Alberta here is your stats, and polls

Grizzly 60%
Muslims 30%
Wolves 08%
Humans 02%

I'm immigrating

?????

[elkhunter11]

elkhunter11, with all due respect, your an idiot. read the article. read the posts by me, argobenny.
all attempts where made to avoid the encounter. who would bow hunt on the ground knowing a mother grizzly was in the area. you ? i think not. a .45 is the most logical choice for a last defence option. try getting a second shot off with any type of accuracy with one hand on a shot gun. let some bear spray go at point blank range with a 771.62 pound angry, defensive mother grizzly bearing down on you. 45-70 lever action ? the multiple ventilation from the .45 saved my life. most will always choose to be judged by 12 than carried by six, common sense will prevail. very good discussing this with you, good questions.

At no point did I post that I would not choose to carry a handgun, if it was legal to do so. However, my choice of handgun would not be a 45Acp , I would be carrying at minimum a 44 mag , and more likely my 454 Casull, because if I am going to trust a handgun to protect my life, it is going to be a suitable handgun. However, I would not carry a handgun illegally , with me while bowhunting. If I felt that I really needed a firearm to feel safe, and my only legal option waa a non restricted firearm, I would be carrying my short barreled 45-70. If I didn't feel that was adequate, I wouldn' be bowhuning. As to calling me an idiot, I am not the one that chose to illegally carry a 45acp, and that was mauled as a result.

[super7mag]

Someday Elk your gonna fall off that high horse of yours.

[scrapper]

Frankly Bear spray is poor option, if the wind happens to be blowing the wrong direction bear spray is totally in effective, try fighting off a bear or fleeing the area, climbing a tree after you gave yourself a face full of bear spray. Hand guns can certainly provide significant protection, they are loud, and they are lethal, I have two but do not carry them a field, no way I want to face the new gun laws in the courts. My choice is the short 12 gauge 3 inch mag with slugs, with the pistol grip installed mine is only 22 inches long, that makes it illeagal so when in the bush I leave the shoulder stock in place.

Nothing is walking through a 3 inch mag 300 grain slug at close range without some kind of effect. Having said that if the carry permit was easily accessable I would certainly pack my 45 for the short trips, I never carry bear spray.

[elkhunter11]

Someday Elk your gonna fall off that high horse of yours.

I am not the one that chose to call another member an idiot. And I don't consider doing things legally , as being on a high horse.

[thegunman]

At no point did I post that I would not choose to carry a handgun, if it was legal to do so. However, my choice of handgun would not be a 45Acp , I would be carrying at minimum a 44 mag , and more likely my 454 Casull, because if I am going to trust a handgun to protect my life, it is going to be a suitable handgun. However, I would not carry a handgun illegally , with me while bowhunting. If I felt that I really needed a firearm to feel safe, and my only legal option waa a non restricted firearm, I would be carrying my short barreled 45-70. If I didn't feel that was adequate, I wouldn' be bowhuning. As to calling me an idiot, I am not the one that chose to illegally carry a 45acp, and that was mauled as a result.

I would rather have 4,5 or maybe even 6 .45 holes pumping blood out than one from a 454.

[Matt L.]

So the bear saw his 45 and said "hey, you can't carry that here! I'm going to beat the crap outta you!"?

[walking buffalo]

At no point did I post that I would not choose to carry a handgun, if it was legal to do so. However, my choice of handgun would not be a 45Acp , I would be carrying at minimum a 44 mag , and more likely my 454 Casull, because if I am going to trust a handgun to protect my life, it is going to be a suitable handgun. However, I would not carry a handgun illegally , with me while bowhunting. If I felt that I really needed a firearm to feel safe, and my only legal option waa a non restricted firearm, I would be carrying my short barreled 45-70. If I didn't feel that was adequate, I wouldn' be bowhuning. As to calling me an idiot, I am not the one that chose to illegally carry a 45acp, and that was mauled as a result.

:confused:

Yes Matt, there is a new sheriff in town, Officer Grizzly. ;)



Elkhunter11,
What is the purpose of your argument?

[elkhunter11]

I would rather have 4,5 or maybe even 6 .45 holes pumping blood out than one from a 454.

I would use a cartridge that has a much better chance of disabling the bear, and stopping the attack with the first shot, since it may be the only shot you get.

[280Hunter]

Well it's me... check out my previous threads. i was ****ting my pants as the mother grizzly ran past. my defensive training first and for most is to allow the treat to pass. the worst i seen on my trail cam was a pack of wolves that had taken down a calf moose. i, as do most hunters with any type of integrity, respect the grizzly and would never ever provoke an encounter. here i am ask away and hopefully all will learn, as well as myself, signed, Robert Bennett, (argobenny)
Hey Robert nice to see you on here :) I'm really glad you made it outta your ordeal! Can I ask if all your shots on the bear were to her body?

[argobenny]

Hey Robert nice to see you on here :) I'm really glad you made it outta your ordeal! Can I ask if all your shots on the bear were to her body?

as far as i am told by Fish and Feathers, 12 entrance and exit wounds all body but one still in the skull. and thanks.

[argobenny]

Good on you for stepping in, i agree with your statements, try shooting/cycling a long gun with a bear on you..... Not gonna happen. Can you comment on what the wardens said about you having a pistol ? I am in total support of your reasoning and actions

Wardens said they needed to do something because of political pressure and internet blogs where beating them up. had to do something so they had the rc's destroy the gun. no charges which i thank all for having some common sense. not sure if our politicians will ever realize that we, Canadians, are just as safe and smart, maybe more, than the southern states residents that can carry.

[jryley]

I would use a cartridge that has a much better chance of disabling the bear, and stopping the attack with the first shot, since it may be the only shot you get.

And I would only walk into a knife fight with a blade longer than 3 inches, but if a 3 inch blade is all i have have, well thats what im using!