Barbless don"t save fish - they just make money for f&w

[spopadyn]

I have been reading a lot about all the studies on barbless hooks. It has virtually no statistical difference in fish mortality then barbed hooks - this is an absolute fact. We should really be lobbying the government to change back a rule that had nothing to do with science and everthing to do with generating more fines. What does affect fish mortality is hook size. Why doesn't the F&W institue a minimum hook size?

[pdfish]

I've seen the #'s in the past as well, but really I wouldn't switch back to barbs, the ease of releasing a fish with barbless is nice to have. Truth be told, the only fishing I do where barbs would be beneficial is salmon fishing due to the fact that I'm trying to fill the freezer and they have hard mouths making it pretty easy to shake the hook. But that's another province anyway.

[honda450]

Barbless is fine with me.:wave:

[ishootbambi]

ive read a fair number of different studies and opinions, and it seems that if you can see through the numbers there is some info to be had. from what i understand, the barb itself is not the problem for the fish. just studying the effect of the barb shows with or without there is little difference to the fish. with a barb, basically the fish swims away with a little different size of hole in its lip. in cases where the study goes a little deeper however, they looked into the handling time of the angler while digging the hook out, and thats where the difference was noted. im not gonna spew numbers, and im sure the links will start rolling in, but survival for barbless hooks was higher based on that in the articles i read. the less you handle a fish, the better its chance of survival upon release. with barbless hooks, handling time was reduced and that was the real reason for the difference.

personally i dont eat fish, they all go back. i have been pinching barbs since long before it was law, and if i can i dont even touch the fish when i get them up. i prefer to just reach out with the needlenose and pop the hook free....unless id like a picture. id love to think they all survive, but i suspect i unknowingly kill the odd one.

so from your tone....im guessing you forgot to pinch the new hooks you bought and were fined? :ashamed:

[DaveFish]

It is a lot easier to release fish w/o barbs, think about it, 5mins out of the water vs 6mins out of the water. If barbless saves 1 trophy fish from dying from stress/etc and loses 5, I'm all for it. Though...if more people got caught using barbs(like I'm sure you did for posting this), SRD would have more money, and be able to maintain the fisheries abit better...

[ericlin0122]

if this happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MluccXl8Ykw&NR=1), you will be glad you have a barbless hook!

[enzo]

With the huge increase in fishing pressure on Alberta waters in the last few years comes the increase of fish being caught. Past rants on this forum say that people don't bring in as many fish with barbless hooks versus barbed. With fewer fish being brought in, the lower the risk the fish will be mishandled for release (unless your bonking it, I don't care). People are dangling trout on their hooks for pics, fingers in gills, jawspreaders left in for pics, gang treble hook setups (1 each for: eye, gill, finger) and that's the problem added with the number of anglers today. There's plenty of photo's in this forum if you look. I don't think your arguement has any wind in its sails.

[LacLaBicheNS]

in my opinion an experienced angler removing the hook has no problem with barbed, but a in experienced angler has a harder time removing barbed hooks which leads to more handling time and more damage..

[catnthehat]

in my opinion an experienced angler removing the hook has no problem with barbed, but a in experienced angler has a harder time removing barbed hooks which leads to more handling time and more damage..

X2 - this is the whole reasoning behind barbless hooks IMO - less handling of fish means less mortality.

[209x50]

I completely agree, the science doesn't show that barbless has any influence in the fishes survival. The barbless hook rules are just another government interference in our lives and simply a law made for people who obey laws.

[enzo]

The barbless hook rules are just another government interference in our lives and simply a law made for people who obey laws.

You are right, excellent point, I changed my mind.

[Chris K]

I completely agree, the science doesn't show that barbless has any influence in the fishes survival. The barbless hook rules are just another government interference in our lives and simply a law made for people who obey laws.

Well said Richard!

[riderpride55]

I agree this law is a money maker, however I support fishing with barb less hooks in some situations. I think it should be up to the angler to make that decision.

I caught a small pike on a large rapala with 2 trebles. that poor pike must have had all six barbed points set. I did not feel good about that situation. but if I am jigging, or bottom bouncing where there is a single hook. by all means let it be barbed. if you set the hook quickly. the single hook will almost always be in the roof on the walleye.

[crazyfish]

trying to fish the trebles out of a smaller pike can be tough , worse with barbs, pliers and barbless is the way to go. An afternoon on pigeon recycling 100+ fish, barbless 2-3 seconds to release, very easy i have no problem with the rule ! if it costs me the odd fish, oh well ! :D

[guidehunt]

guys get with the program ,MANITOBA HAS BEEN BARBLESS FOR 20 +YEARS and have been barbless myself for that long .i have been guideing in man and n.w.t. for 25yrs and it does make a difference great rule my 2cents worth

[aulrich]

I have never understood the brewhaha over barbless I have never noticed a stagering increase in loosing fish. But I have noticed the ease of release, and fully belive that the less you handle the fish the better.

It has come to the point where I am considering replacing most of my treble hooks on my pike gear to single. Too much trouble getting even a barbless treble hook out of the gullet of a smallish pike, and it is the small fish where hooking mortality is a problem, not so much the bigger.

[sdimedru]

I'm for it...barbless doesn't make things worse for the fish does it???

[Albertafisher]

I hear all of your opinions but mine stays the same.. barbless decreases the stress on the fish and helps release them in a better state than if the hooks had barbs. it doesn't cost more money if you pinch the barbs, but it does cost more if you buy barbless hooks.

[TexasTornado]

I wouldn't fish with barbs even if it was legal, i like to spend as little time unhooking fish as possible so i have more time to catch them.

[209x50]

You know what, barbed or barbless hooks makes no difference to me, I can't see where I lose any more or less fish. What does bother me is the day I forget to jump through big brothers hoops and don't pinch down a barb and then get a ticket for it. Totally useless law will have just made a criminal out of me. How does that make sense?

[honda450]

The only thing about the small flys that I use is that I can't see if the barb has been pinched. My fingers can't usually feel it neither.

Got a magnifing glass now.:lol::lol: Problem solved.

[Crusty]

5mins out of the water vs 6mins ??????????????


Man, are you making a movie?

[riderpride55]

for an experienced angler barbed or non barbed hooks should not affect the amount of fish landed. one of the nice things about barbs is they hold the bait on the Jig. its a real pain trying to keep minnows on, messing around with bits of rubber band. or taking a newbie out and seeing that fish get away because the did not keep the line tight. I feel it should not be law, and let the public decide what is best

[mclean]

I don,t catch or lose anymore fish because of a barbless hook, i personaly don,t agree with a barbless hook law, with barbless hooks it is a lot harder to keep bait on the hook. As for fish that are hooked deep , it is more than likely the fishermans fault for not setting the hook sooner, improper handling of caught fish is more of more damaging than the barbed hook.

[aulrich]

Bait is the one issue with barbess, I get around it with bits of twistertail. I just bite off one of the segments and use it to hold on the bait. Upside you can play with color to get a possible edge.

[mtylerb]

... If barbless saves 1 trophy fish from dying from stress/etc and loses 5, I'm all for it. ...

*Groan* Where have I heard something eerily similar, before?

Bill C-68 - If it saves just one life ... ... ... :rolleye2:

[javlin101]

I am also for Barb less, does not cause any real grief & I think it does help on mortility rates.

An experinced angler has no problem removing barbed or non barbed hooks. In experinced anglers would. Bet there is far more in experinced anglers in Alberta than experinced ones so ya barb less will save fish.

it's a useless law Well it is a law, there is lots of them in Alberta & useless or not if you break it you pay. don't see the problem here. Same as photo radar, you speed, your breaking the law, you pay, what not to understand about this.


to be honest the thing that rips me & I have seen it at Piegon as well as other lakes. is the nocice angler out fishing in their wake boat because it is to rought to ski. They catch a fish, show to thier buddies & then toss it back in the water from a standing postion.

[C@RN@GE]

Those test are all done by professional anglers. There not taking into affect the amount of people that pull there fish up onto rocks and onto the grass then put there 1 foot on the fish while they yank with a pair of pliers. Then toss it back about 6 mins later with it mouth/gills totally destroyed. Does it really matter nope. Most of the people using barbed hooks still are inexperienced people that have no clue how to handle fish and more concerned about keeping there 8 cent hook instead of saving the fish. I’m sure the amount of people using barbed hooks is close to 50 percent. That’s about the same amount of people that have no clue on how to handle fish. Maybe 10 percent get caught and maybe 2 percent actually get a ticket. I’m sure most of the guys complaining about them are the same guys i see chucking bait at trout lakes every year just after they stock it. Letting the 6 inch trout swallow the hook then reeling it in as fast as they can. Then they yank there 8 cent hook out of the gill. Then there go ahead and toss the trout bleeding out of the gills back into the water. You can usually spot these guys pretty easily there have piles of small dead trout around them.

[mooseknuckle]

Those test are all done by professional anglers. There not taking into affect the amount of people that pull there fish up onto rocks and onto the grass then put there 1 foot on the fish while they yank with a pair of pliers. Then toss it back about 6 mins later with it mouth/gills totally destroyed. Does it really matter nope. Most of the people using barbed hooks still are inexperienced people that have no clue how to handle fish and more concerned about keeping there 8 cent hook instead of saving the fish. I’m sure the amount of people using barbed hooks is close to 50 percent. That’s about the same amount of people that have no clue on how to handle fish. Maybe 10 percent get caught and maybe 2 percent actually get a ticket. I’m sure most of the guys complaining about them are the same guys i see chucking bait at trout lakes every year just after they stock it. Letting the 6 inch trout swallow the hook then reeling it in as fast as they can. Then they yank there 8 cent hook out of the gill. Then there go ahead and toss the trout bleeding out of the gills back into the water. You can usually spot these guys pretty easily there have piles of small dead trout around them.


50% use barbed hooks???? I think your out to lunch on that little stat.

Usually Spot these guys??? hmmmm nope.

and lastly "8 cent hook" ???? Where are you shopping?

[huntsfurfish]

Ive said it before and I will say it again. There is no real evidence to support the barbless hook issue.

It is a fish handling issue.

Its actually "fun" watching an angler dig out a deeply imbedded hook from the back of a fishes throat. Then comment "its Ok im using barbless hooks".

Properly educated anglers would have little difficulty releasing fish caught using barbs.



Now for the real fish killer seeings as no body else will bring it up ---


Bait.


Now use of bait kills more fish....

Wait a minute I like to use bait so I wont go there.

I actually think this was just a feel good law.

[nicemustang]

I agree with a lot of points here. I for one fish barbless even if I don't have to (BC and SASK). Not sure why I do, just used to it. The only thing barbs is good for is keeping your bait on. I'd probably save a lot more money in minnows.

[pdfish]

I agree with a lot of points here. I for one fish barbless even if I don't have to (BC and SASK). Not sure why I do, just used to it. The only thing barbs is good for is keeping your bait on. I'd probably save a lot more money in minnows.

Last time I checked BC was barbless.

[danewfy]

i fish barbless 100% but there are situations where, given the choice, i would not. icefishing for whites in my hut is a perfect example.

[Wilky]

As far as I know, barbless is province wide. Why then, is it legal to sell barbed hooks?

[spopadyn]

Those test are all done by professional anglers. There not taking into affect the amount of people that pull there fish up onto rocks and onto the grass then put there 1 foot on the fish while they yank with a pair of pliers. Then toss it back about 6 mins later with it mouth/gills totally destroyed. Does it really matter nope. Most of the people using barbed hooks still are inexperienced people that have no clue how to handle fish and more concerned about keeping there 8 cent hook instead of saving the fish. I’m sure the amount of people using barbed hooks is close to 50 percent. That’s about the same amount of people that have no clue on how to handle fish. Maybe 10 percent get caught and maybe 2 percent actually get a ticket. I’m sure most of the guys complaining about them are the same guys i see chucking bait at trout lakes every year just after they stock it. Letting the 6 inch trout swallow the hook then reeling it in as fast as they can. Then they yank there 8 cent hook out of the gill. Then there go ahead and toss the trout bleeding out of the gills back into the water. You can usually spot these guys pretty easily there have piles of small dead trout around them.


No, that is not true. Most the tests done were by professors and their classrooms. If you think being in University quilfies you as a "professional angler" then give your head a shake. All the tests I have read were simple catch and hold systems and count the dead fish the next day. No difference between barbless or barbed. Also, the tests have been repeated through North America and even Greece. Again - NO DIFFERENCE. Facts are facts. What is a real surprise was how small hooks caused massive mortality (because the fish take them deeper). Also, the old wives tail "if the hook is real deep, cut the leader and the fish will survie" - also wrong. When a fish is hooked real deep - almost always dies. Why don't we lobby the govt. to make rules that make sense. Comparing this to speeding is ridiculous. Slower speeds save lives - barbless hooks do nothig (accept allow the govt. to assess fines ). By the way, I have never received a fine for fishing with a barbed hook. I just hate laws that make no sense.

[bobalong]

As far as I know, barbless is province wide. Why then, is it legal to sell barbed hooks?

It is legal because, like other items, it is the application of the object,not the object it self that is illegal. The lures produced by all the major manufactures sell world wide and they are not going to start producing a whole new line of lures that are barbless because a few provinces decided to go to barbless.

I have been using barbless lures for years as well, handling time is reduced substantiallly and on quite a few occasions all that is required is to give the fish slack line, the hook will fall out, and the fish will swim away on its own.(with jigs anyway) With barbless there are numerous occassions when you don't even have to touch the fish or remove them from the water. Like it or not this decreased handling and the ability for the fish to stay in the water, increases survival rates by a huge margin.

[NUK SOO KOW]

I'm all about the barbless!! It's a great rule!

[superspud]

barbless owns!!!!!!! just keep the rod tip up!

[Drewski Canuck]

Every spring its the same thing: I lose fish because I have to fish barbless, and I don't like it!!!!

Its a Government conspiracy, Just like floride in the water, right???

Every spring I post the same post, which nobody pays any attention to. How about this: Because you have to fish barbless you never married the supermodel you truely deserved.

Quit your whining and grow up. If you don't like losing fish, and you want to reduce injury in fish handling, change your gear over to circle hooks. Fish very very rarely are hooked deep. Almost always are hooked in the side of the mouth or the top or bottom jaws. Once hooked the fish cannot throw the hook, EVEN 37 pound Tyees that jump half a dozen times, still end up in the net.

There, now you know. Switch to circle hooks, THEN go to Victoria Secret's grand opening. Who knows, you might marry that supermodel you truely deserve.

Drewski

[guidehunt]

obviously you dont fish for pike much:evilgrin:

[Scott N]

I hate when I lose fish due to "Ralphies".

[fitzy]

I fish 100% percent barbless and rarely lose them, certainly I don't lose more than I did with barbs. Learn to keep your tip up and the line tight... no big secrets here guys its what your dad taught you... or should have. Plus you don't have to handle this fish as much, very important with big pike.

[greylynx]

I actually think this was just a feel good law.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct.

From a person who has worked in biological end of fisheries mangement.

[Drewski Canuck]

Guidehunt,

If you think that circle hooks don't work on big pike (10 pd - 15 +++) think again. I use 3/0 through 5/0 barbless circle hooks on plugs and spinnerbaits with great success. Been doing it for years for everything from Amberjack and Grouper and shark to west coast salmon. You don't need barbs, and you don't lose live bait on small circle hooks, such as lindy rigs for leeches.

What do I know though.

Drewski

[spopadyn]

Guidehunt,

If you think that circle hooks don't work on big pike (10 pd - 15 +++) think again. I use 3/0 through 5/0 barbless circle hooks on plugs and spinnerbaits with great success. Been doing it for years for everything from Amberjack and Grouper and shark to west coast salmon. You don't need barbs, and you don't lose live bait on small circle hooks, such as lindy rigs for leeches.

What do I know though.

Drewski

It's true, you don't know. This is nothing about ego - I was simply making a point. If barbless worked - we should do it. If it is just a silly "no science" law - we shouldn't. What if the goverment said "lets ban fishing for all species of fish from January 1 - July 31 every year due to spawning?" What would you say smart guy? I bet you would say - "I married a super model so this rule makes sense". Do the research and tell me why we should be barbless. If there is no reason - then it is as I say, a BS law meant to do nothing more then generate fines.

[KyleM]

To myself, this is fairly simple.
Its also fact that a barbless comes out much easier than barbed.

Pulling a barbed hook out puts a ton of strain on the jaw of a fish.

I sure as hell dont like pulling out barbed hooks from my nets either.


Experienced anglers can unhook barbed hooks faster? Thats insane.
Everybody has a bad encounter with trebles, I fished with the damn things for 20 years in Ontario and I would never switch back.

Losing fish in the middle of a fight is part of the enjoyment in our sport.

[luckyme]

law or no law to clip the barb on your barbed hook just work fine for me (some time i left people with questions when i am in area where barbless hook isn't a law:cool:) less time to unhook fish mean more time to set the hook.

[superspud]

just wondering if anyone has any links to good data on the subject.

i personally think it is a no brainer that barbless hooks are better for the fish seeing as it reduces handeling time.

stick a barbed hook in your hand and then a barbless one and tell me if one does less damage.

[brianscott]

I can attest for that one shane, even a pinched barb can be pretty hard to remove sometimes...lol

[uicehole]

I catch more fish with barbless because I can get my hook back in the water faster. I have no probs with the barbless reg because it does decrease fish handling time. I've seen enough idiots (none from this board of course) trying to wrestle hooks out of undersized fish, even stepping on them to pull the hook out.

Nonetheless, I have two minor negative comments about barbless. One, when I pinch down fine wire hooks it seems to weaken the tip and sometimes the point breaks off. Second, my kids have a harder time keeping fish on. Oh well, they'll learn.

[Buck Krazy]

back where I come from, all is good when its said and done!:evilgrin:

[209x50]

Barbless hooks don't save fish, that has been studied to death and proven many times over. Many European jurisdictions don't allow C&R fishing anymore in part because of the mortality. You catch it you kill it. The only way to stop fish catch mortality is to ban fishing.

[Crusty]

and lastly "8 cent hook" ???? Where are you shopping?


Bait fishing. Snelled hooks are cheap. Not useing a Rap.

[huntsfurfish]

Ya know, there are 2 points here(ok more than 2):), single hooks and multi/trebble.

Trebbles - any time you have to go inside the mouth to unhook a fish it takes time. Now you have to handle the fish. My experience indicates there is little to no difference in release time. Lip hooked, just a little twist with needle nose pliers and the fish falls off. The above applies to barbed or barbless.

Single hooks, if hooked inside the mouth, again, you have to handle the fish. Pliers in twist and out comes the hook. Lip hooked fish can stay in the water. Just a little twist with needle nose pliers and the fish falls off.
The above applies to barbed or barbless.

Once again - little to no difference in release time or handling!

Therefore, no difference!

A feel good law!!!

A larger concern would be ......

ps I do pinch my barbs.

[huntsfurfish]

This is one instance(issue) that I believe should have been left up to the individual angler.

The only way to change it would be to lobby for the change. But anglers are so divided on this and so many other issues it is nearly impossible.

Sadly, we may be our own worst enemy.





In the mean time, keep your barbs pinched and your lines tight;):wave::)

[Steven Noel]

If being barbless saves one fish so that it can be caught and enjoyed again, then it was worth it.

[JtotheL]

if this happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MluccXl8Ykw&NR=1), you will be glad you have a barbless hook!

Gross. Why did you make me watch that. Not so sure about fly fishing anymore. They say a bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work but I bet that guy would disagree.:lol:

[spopadyn]

If being barbless saves one fish so that it can be caught and enjoyed again, then it was worth it.

This is exactly what I mean. Anglers and fishermen don't get it. It is not science based. Saving one fish - geez. Look at the hundreds of wasted fish by commercial fishermen. Wouldn't it be better to fix that? So, here are a couple of mortality issues.

1) When a fish is played to long - it usually dies from distress. Guess what - barbless hooks cause us to play the fish longer. People don't horse the fish to the boat as it is easier to lose them - thus, more fish death.

2) We need to get serious here - not every fishermen is C&R. If you are keeping what you catch, you need to get it to the boat for landing. If it is the wrong species - that fish will have been played far to long in the barbless case.

3) In the National Parks - you can fish with barbs. On the Govt. of Canada website - they describe it as a choice and agree there is no evidence that suggest the fish will survive better but comment that if you are a C&R fishermen, it is easier for you to remove the hook.


If you are a C&R fisherman, barbless should be preferred regardless of the law, you will not overplay the fish and if you lose him on the way in, no loss as it saves you from removing the hook. If not, the law is simply a way for the government to put their hand in peoples pockets for no reason.

[greylynx]

Does anyone notice a similarity between these arguments and those that are related to gun confiscation ( whoops: I mean gun control).

Just look over in the British Isles and see what sort of fight fisherman have now?

When everything is controlled in a nice manner to the point most people can't afford remember what I said.


Nawwwwww this won't ever happen

[superspud]

i dont get the whole "its just a way for the goverment to their hands in your pockets".
just pinch the barbs, you wont get a fine.
personally i do not really see the need or want for them other then possibly keeping bait on, but then again i have grown up here and have learned to fish without them.

[Unregistered user]

I've seen the #'s in the past as well, but really I wouldn't switch back to barbs, the ease of releasing a fish with barbless is nice to have. Truth be told, the only fishing I do where barbs would be beneficial is salmon fishing due to the fact that I'm trying to fill the freezer and they have hard mouths making it pretty easy to shake the hook. But that's another province anyway.

The salt chuck went barbless before Alberta, heck that's where Klein got the idea.

[BigBuck$]

if this happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MluccXl8Ykw&NR=1), you will be glad you have a barbless hook!

Yikes, just about puked watching that but I sent it off to some fishn' buddies. I always wear sunglasses or safety glasses when I fish and have had a couple close calls with hooks hitting me in the face.

As for barbed hooks, take the danm things off at the factory. I don't think I've lost any more fish using barbless hooks. It makes it so much easier to release a fish if the hooks come out quickly especially bigger fish that tend to swallow the hook a bit more.

As for the pike fishing comment try to get one of those Storm Softbaits out of a pikes mouth. Even with no barbs it is a task that I'm sure lots of guys can relate to.

[Jayball]

5mins out of the water vs 6mins ??????????????


Man, are you making a movie?

you read my mind. when i saw that... my thought was.... how many pictures are you taking???

30 secs max unless you dealing with treble hooks...

[spopadyn]

i dont get the whole "its just a way for the goverment to their hands in your pockets".
just pinch the barbs, you wont get a fine.
personally i do not really see the need or want for them other then possibly keeping bait on, but then again i have grown up here and have learned to fish without them.

Look, if the law was made just to generate fines, then it is about the gov't taxing us to death. No science no reason - what do you call it?

[huntsfurfish]

A feel good law.

A law that gives the appearance that they are doing something good for the resource. But in reality does nothing.

The law was not made to generate fines. Thats just a bonus by-product:)

[McLeod]

Barbless is better if you quickly release the fish and reduce stress.

It's a little deeper issue because you have to consider how a fish is release, type of species , time of year , water temperature ect. Many walleye if not handled properly will die from stress several days after capture for example.
The law is the law and it is not going to change so education should be dircted towards how to fight and release fish.

[nimrod]

The way I see it is, if there is no science to prove additional mortality on fish with barbs, but release is easier with out barbs, then how about a do what you wish rule with no fines for either way, barbed or no barbs.

Debate solved, no money grab for F&W, anglers are happier and maybe more people fishing to increase funds for F&W.

[EarthDaddy]

Anyone caught using barbed hooks should get 20 yrs in the electric chair, thats my 2 cents:lol:

[Okotokian]

My take:

1. Hook size has a bigger impact on fish mortality than barbed/barbless.
2. I DO lose more fish on barbless hooks, but could lessen that some if I upped my fishing skills.
3. Barbless hooks will result in slightly less mortality for hooks of equal size.
4. I'm fine with the barbless rules. Just a bit more challenge, but that's fine.
5. I don't believe government brings in any laws (with the exception of tax laws) for the sole purpose of making money. Enforcement, admin, legal costs usually cost more than revenue generated.

[spopadyn]

My take:

1. Hook size has a bigger impact on fish mortality than barbed/barbless.
Absolutely correct - the smaller the worse.2. I DO lose more fish on barbless hooks, but could lessen that some if I upped my fishing skills. You will always lose more but who cares, that isn't what the discussion is about.
3. Barbless hooks will result in slightly less mortality for hooks of equal size.
No statistical difference - been studied to death.
4. I'm fine with the barbless rules. Just a bit more challenge, but that's fine.
Me too, but it doesn't make sense. 5. I don't believe government brings in any laws (with the exception of tax laws) for the sole purpose of making money. Enforcement, admin, legal costs usually cost more than revenue generated. The admin on this law is nothing more then collections. The officers are out there anyway, now they can issue extra tickets.

Comments above are in red.

[Okotokian]

[/COLOR]

Comments above are in red.

Well, the "no statistical difference" comment is at least arguable/debatable. Check this study and a few of the others it references.
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/fsn067v1

[mclean]

This is a feel good law, i do pinch the barbs when i go fishing, if it makes any difference i am not sure , i am not convinced.
The same applies to the ice fishing laws a short number of years ago, when the government more or less said i could not count and reduced my ice tipups from 3 to 2 setups.

[superspud]

thats great okatokian!
nice to see some real stats.

[spopadyn]

Well, the "no statistical difference" comment is at least arguable/debatable. Check this study and a few of the others it references.
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/fsn067v1

Here is the conclusion from your study:

In contrast, the use of barbless hooks results in a small reduction in unhooking time (so it was assumed that the mortality rate could be improved), but at the cost of a dramatically reduced cpue. Hence, in our case, we conclude that, unlike with the effect of hook size, the use of barbless hooks does not provide any significant advantage from a conservation perspective.

Here is the info out of wikipedia for goodness sake:

Most actual scientific studies regarding post release mortality have shown however that barbless hooks do not result in statistically significantly lower mortality rates than barbed hooks.[4]

As I said before - useless law designed to make money for the F&W team

[luckyme]

darn that wikipedia, it's make everbody an expert!:lol:

[209x50]

Ban fishing, if it saves one fishes life it is worth it!

[superspud]

ya and the info off of it so so reliable.:rolleyes: I cited wikipedia in a lab report once and my proff gave me a D because of it. i do use it it all the time though, so i shouldent bash it

[Mussel]

I see people fishing on L.S.L. using barbless hooks. Good idea in shallow water. I do see a lot of people fishing in 30+ feet and here the barbless is not so good. The barbless hook makes people pull the walleye up too fast, the fish is released with the air bladder in the mouth of the fish. 100% of these fish die, a barb might allow the angler to play the fish up slow enough that it might actually survive. The more resposible fishers do not angle in the deeper water but a great many do.

[mooseknuckle]

I see people fishing on L.S.L. using barbless hooks. Good idea in shallow water. I do see a lot of people fishing in 30+ feet and here the barbless is not so good. The barbless hook makes people pull the walleye up too fast, the fish is released with the air bladder in the mouth of the fish. 100% of these fish die, a barb might allow the angler to play the fish up slow enough that it might actually survive. The more resposible fishers do not angle in the deeper water but a great many do.

What a bunch of Horsesheet!!!

[thumper]

I see barbless laws as just another barrier in getting young people involved in enjoying the out-of-doors.
- another thing for them to worry about whether they're 'legal' or not
- another 'discretionary call' by a F & W officer as to when a pinched barb can be termed 'barbless
- makes landing a fish more difficult for the new angler

Now that the safety-zealots have made legal boating so complicated with overkill requirements, it's time to concentrate on making fishing so regulated it's only us hard-cores that bother to keep track of them all. No wonder kids spend all day in the basement in front of a video game.

[209x50]

I see people fishing on L.S.L. using barbless hooks. Good idea in shallow water. I do see a lot of people fishing in 30+ feet and here the barbless is not so good. The barbless hook makes people pull the walleye up too fast, the fish is released with the air bladder in the mouth of the fish. 100% of these fish die, a barb might allow the angler to play the fish up slow enough that it might actually survive. The more resposible fishers do not angle in the deeper water but a great many do.
Sorry you are completely clueless on this one, walleye take an hour to move from 30 to 15 feet. That is one long fight.

[spopadyn]

I see barbless laws as just another barrier in getting young people involved in enjoying the out-of-doors.
- another thing for them to worry about whether they're 'legal' or not
- another 'discretionary call' by a F & W officer as to when a pinched barb can be termed 'barbless
- makes landing a fish more difficult for the new angler

Now that the safety-zealots have made legal boating so complicated with overkill requirements, it's time to concentrate on making fishing so regulated it's only us hard-cores that bother to keep track of them all. No wonder kids spend all day in the basement in front of a video game.

Absolutely agree with you. That is why I hate laws like this.

[maxpower2506]

No problem with barbless !!!!!

[BGSH]

I see barbless laws as just another barrier in getting young people involved in enjoying the out-of-doors.
- another thing for them to worry about whether they're 'legal' or not
- another 'discretionary call' by a F & W officer as to when a pinched barb can be termed 'barbless
- makes landing a fish more difficult for the new angler

Now that the safety-zealots have made legal boating so complicated with overkill requirements, it's time to concentrate on making fishing so regulated it's only us hard-cores that bother to keep track of them all. No wonder kids spend all day in the basement in front of a video game.

Barb less hooks is the way to go, i always de barb the hook, it usually just falls out when i catch a fish, all though some fish i catch with de barbed hooks can still bleed, it all depends where the fish is hooked, i do not see how it is a cash grab as the ticket is not that much and there is only 105 officers in Alberta to begin with, it all depends how you revive the fish, for example if you fish barb less or barbed when you catch a fish if you end up throwing it back in the water as i have seen several times this year that is obviously worst then fishing barbed, argument can go both ways i have heard that barb less hooks can penitrate deeper into the fishes mouth there for bleed more and so on, anyways good fishing, clean up after yourself.

[WayneChristie]

Shawn are you reading every fishing post ever posted? just curious :bad_boys_20:

[BGSH]

Shawn are you reading every fishing post ever posted? just curious :bad_boys_20:

Yea i joined late so i am still catching up, i just joined in may

[WayneChristie]

that is dedication dude, there is a ton of good info in here, I should do the same thing this winter. lots of the more entertaining stuff has been chopped unfortunately

[pattycr125]

after you've killed a fish when doing catch and release due to a barbed hook, it's not hard to agree with debarbing your hooks. sure losing them sucks but it's also so much more rewarding when you catch them and then have a quick clean release.

[BGSH]

that is dedication dude, there is a ton of good info in here, I should do the same thing this winter. lots of the more entertaining stuff has been chopped unfortunately

Well maby I can get this forum alive again over the winter, will see what happens, yea a lot of these threads are going to be great to read over the winter time, tonns of information, i like reading on whats changed over the years in different fisheries around Alberta.

[Rock Doctor]

Last time I checked BC was barbless.

BC is not all barbless.

RD

[ak-71]

after you've killed a fish when doing catch and release due to a barbed hook, it's not hard to agree with debarbing your hooks. sure losing them sucks but it's also so much more rewarding when you catch them and then have a quick clean release.

I think most participants miss the point of the discussion.

The claim is that "barbless don't save the fish.... It has virtually no statistical difference in fish mortality then barbed hooks..."

1. The statement above may be false, then law makes sense.
2. It can be true, then it's a stupid law, even if it gives some warm and fuzzy feeling

[greylynx]

Shawn are you reading every fishing post ever posted? just curious :bad_boys_20:

x2

Why are you bringing up old crap on all the forums.

Can't you think up anything fresh by yourself?

[yada]

I think barless hooks are the way to go.

I think that F&W shouldnt ticket you if they see you tried to pinch the barbs down. Sometimes you pinch it down and its not perfect, and i dont think you should get ticketed for that.

If you made no effort to pinch the barbs down at all, thats worth a ticket.

[pikester]

Two points;
1- The fact that barbless hooks are about 80% easier to pull back out of my neck or finger makes it good enough for me to use forever; already saved 2 of my kids some extra painful trauma this summer as well!

2- Argue all you want that barbed hooks should be legal, you are probably right correct about them being insignificant to hooking mortality. The fact is, however, IT IS ILLEGAL! Everything from speed limit & seatbelt laws to marijauana laws could, on some level, be successfully argued to be abolished or decriminalised but until then IT IS ILLEGAL. Seems kinda like watching your favourite team lose & saying,"They should have won..." Well maybe they should have, but they didn't.

Just for the record, I don't like barbed hooks personally (see point #1 lol) but if they were legalised again I wouldn't condemn anyone for using them.

[ak-71]

That is exactly how I see all of the regulations. It's just a set of rules, and I don't understand why some are there and some seem strange, but they should be the same for everybody and followed, otherwise it's just unfair - everybody want to catch fish.
But if something is legal I won't feel sorry for doing something, like eating the fish I catch.

[scel]

Hahaha.
I am playing catch up too.

I have to remind myself that messageboards are representation of a community. I am certainly glad that there has been a transition towards personal responsibility and conservationism.

In my past life, I was a researcher. The original post premise of 'barbed hooks are equivalent to barbless because fish released after being caught with a barbed hook are probably as likely to survive as a fish caught with a barbless hook'.

It is quite simple:
- Scientifically: how can anyone truly monitor the long term health data of a fish that was caught. 'Dead vs. Not-Dead' is a truly myopic measurement of health.
- Practically: pulling out a barbed hook causes much more damage than a barbless hook. Why would anyone want to unnecessarily hurt a fish that we must release? As mentioned, pulling out a barbed hook from human flesh is way worse than pulling out a barbless hook.
The argument becomes equivalent of 'people who have their legs broken are as likely to live as long as someone who has not had their legs broken'. But seriously, who wants a broken leg?
- Intuitively: How could a barbed hook be better for a catch-and-release fish than a barbless? It just seems kind of sadistic.

I landed a 22" rainbow last week with 2 barbed hooks in his mouth. I seriously doubt that fish lived a better life with a rusty barbed hook in its mouth. A barbless hook would have fallen out...eventually. I know that it is not a great picture, but the hare's ear in the front is mine, and the pink size 8 in the back still has a piece of mono tied to it.

41883

[Dak1138]

Well maby I can get this forum alive again over the winter

Please don't.

[pipco]

Pinched barbs are the way to go. Any money generated for F&W is a good thing.
They are short staffed and need more people in the field to manage our fisheries.

Ten seconds or less to flatten down a barb dude. Pick your battles, this one just seems silly and your "scientific stats" aren't worth doodly squat.

[demolition101]

Barbed hooks = Less fight time

Barbless hooks = More fight time for inexperienced fishers

IMO, Better to land a fish fast and have a little more time to take a hook out than watch someone fight a fish for 15 mins and have it's mortality rate significantly increased. Again.........IMO! lol

[Toirtis]

Barbed hooks are more difficult to remove, so arguably they can cause more damage and time when being removed, but a law that would really make a difference would be to ban bait altogether.

[Jayhad]

Barbed hooks = Less fight time

Barbless hooks = More fight time for inexperienced fishers

IMO, Better to land a fish fast and have a little more time to take a hook out than watch someone fight a fish for 15 mins and have it's mortality rate significantly increased. Again.........IMO! lol

Totally, totally wrong.

With barbless you must keep pressure on a fish so the hook doesn't pop.... that means getting him in ASAP. you can let a fish swim around with no pressure on a barbed hook and he will remain hooked.

Try it your self, drop your rod when you have a barbless hooked fish, he'll get off.

[cujo1969]

Will they be going to the single hooks like in BC also. Seems be alot easier to release with only one single hook.

[demolition101]

Totally, totally wrong.

With barbless you must keep pressure on a fish so the hook doesn't pop.... that means getting him in ASAP. you can let a fish swim around with no pressure on a barbed hook and he will remain hooked.

Try it your self, drop your rod when you have a barbless hooked fish, he'll get off.

That's what youre supposed to do but average fishers dont do that. Most I've seen anyways

[209x50]

A real nice article by Duane Radford in the current Alberta Outdoorsmen magazine that talks about how stupid this law is. For those unaware Duane worked as a Regional Fisheries Biologist, Regional Director and Fisheries Director for the Alberta Fish and Wildlife Division. At the time of this laws enactment.

[Serengeti Charters]

While barbless makes it a heck of a lot harder to catch them, I've seen back before it was illegal the damage a barbed hook can do to a salmon, and when it comes to salmon fishing, barbless hooks definitely saves some fish! It's so easy to release them that there is little harm done, and you don't even have to touch the fish, big difference.

[ak-71]

Barbed hooks are more difficult to remove, so arguably they can cause more damage and time when being removed, but a law that would really make a difference would be to ban bait altogether.

Right...
Or make every lake C&R in Alberta (as some suggested earlier) or ban fishing altogether - would make even more difference...
Next step would be to make hunting C&R - like drug the animal to hug him for the picture, later on ban hunting altogether as well...
Is it a PETA infiltration to the forum?

If barbs don't make any difference (which none of us researched in depth) - it is a stupid law (IMHO)

[McLeod]

I have done my own real life studies on live fish.

Barbless hooks ...less fish mortality if you plan on releasing what you catch.
I will gladly lose a few fish when bringing them in then have more die when removing embedded hooks.

[pickrel pat]

every one of us has had experiences removing stubborn hooks from fishes mouths. barbless makes it a bit easier. ive seen people squeeze the begeezuz out of fish in an effort to remove a hook. of fricken course its a good idea!!!! wow!

[ak-71]

I would maybe used barbed when fishing for something I can and plan to keep - lake whitefish, perch (if I ever find it). But for the most part I agree barbless makes life easier and doesn't bother me much.
Shoudn't be a law though if it isn't making the difference.

[pickrel pat]

but it is making a differance! ive seen the differance..... the handling of the fish is where most of the mortality arises..... ever see people squeeze the crap out of a 1 lb hammer handle while removing a hook? i have. lots.

[BeeGuy]

There isn't a simple answer to this issue.

When targeting certain species it would be useful to have barbs and the conservation implications would be nil. ie whitefish

Fishing intensity has the greatest impact on the resource, no matter what technique is applied.

That said, there is still a huge lack of education or resources available that show people how to C&R in a low impact manner.

One still needs to pour over this site in order to find instructions on how to make a low impact sturgeon rig. These types of resources should be available.

Having a single authoritative resource for the province would go far. This way when issues are brought to the SRD they can provide a simple solution which is publicly available.


I don't believe barbless hooks increase the fight time. I think gear size influences fight time.

Barbed hooks definitely cause more tissue trauma.

One of the reasons that streams went barbless in BC is because mortality in trout less than 25-30cm was very high. I believe it.

[McLeod]

A real nice article by Duane Radford in the current Alberta Outdoorsmen magazine that talks about how stupid this law is. For those unaware Duane worked as a Regional Fisheries Biologist, Regional Director and Fisheries Director for the Alberta Fish and Wildlife Division. At the time of this laws enactment.

While I respect Duane I do not agree with him when it comes to the use of Barbed treble hooks on Spoons or spinners. Barbed flies which of course are a single I would tend to agree a little more that they don't have much of a difference. But treble barbed hooks are devasting. I have experimented with this the National Parks and have seen the evidence.

[Sundancefisher]

While barbless makes it a heck of a lot harder to catch them, I've seen back before it was illegal the damage a barbed hook can do to a salmon, and when it comes to salmon fishing, barbless hooks definitely saves some fish! It's so easy to release them that there is little harm done, and you don't even have to touch the fish, big difference.

Would you also say more fish get away and so from a sporting perspective...fewer fish get harvested than might of happened with barbed hooks?

There is a significant sporting component to this...it does mean you need to be a better fisherman to land the fish.

[Serengeti Charters]

Would you also say more fish get away and so from a sporting perspective...fewer fish get harvested than might of happened with barbed hooks?

There is a significant sporting component to this...it does mean you need to be a better fisherman to land the fish.

Absolutely!!! Way more fish get away...with barbed I'd say 80% of Chinook salmon that get hooked get caught even by guys I have out for the first time; whereas with barbless a novice angler will only catch about 33%-40% of Chinook salmon at most.

[Unregistered user]

Tight lines, it aint rocket surgery.

[Ken07AOVette]

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa92/lionsfan54/Insults/sameoldstory.jpg

[Alberta Bigbore]

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac153/mojobass/dc9cf-1193838025470pd4.jpg






.

[BGSH]

Absolutely!!! Way more fish get away...with barbed I'd say 80% of Chinook salmon that get hooked get caught even by guys I have out for the first time; whereas with barbless a novice angler will only catch about 33%-40% of Chinook salmon at most.

Well said, but i do think barb less hooks do help especially when they are spawning in rivers, play the fish right you should be able to bring it in

[KegRiver]

K, I might as well put in my two cents worth.

The way I see it, barbed or barbless, makes no never mind to me.
I can catch fish with either, so if the law says barbless, barbless it is.

As to mortality, most of what I catch goes to the fry pan anyway. It is the #1 reason that I fish. So mortality for those fish is 100% anyway.

Naturally I release the smaller ones, I always did, long before catch and release became popular. I learned long ago that I could reduce the number of small fish caught by using big baits/lures. I still catch a few under legal size, they get released.

Oh and I don't fight the small fish. I use heavy tackle and real the small ones in ASAP. Minimal time on the hook, minimal time out of the water.
I want that fish to survive so I can eat it when it gets BIG.

[buckman]

Very little if any difference.

In England most fishing(except Trout/Salmon) is catch and release.

Some of the fish have been caught so many times they have even been given names.

Mostly they have been caught on barbed hooks.

If a fish takes the hook in the gills or gullet snip the line and let it go,the hooks will rust or be disolved and most fish will survive, barbed or not.

I have caught and kept pike with treble barbed hooks inside their bellys that are almost completely disolved.

The fish were healthy and obviously no worse for wear.

Barbless DEFINATLY increases the chanch of a fish escaping,at least in my view.

[209x50]

While I respect Duane I do not agree with him when it comes to the use of Barbed treble hooks on Spoons or spinners. Barbed flies which of course are a single I would tend to agree a little more that they don't have much of a difference. But treble barbed hooks are devasting. I have experimented with this the National Parks and have seen the evidence.
Duane is going by the science and the science says barbless hooks are a feel good law. Not what someone thinks or feels or their own anecdotal evidence. The number one cause of fish mortality is fishing, not barbed hooks. Should we stop fishing to stop C&R mortality?

[DanaS]

I wasn't gonna, but I will pipe in as well. I will use single barbless hooks now and for forever. So will my kids (at least I hope so). Even when I fish out of country, where barbs are legal, I am pinching them down or filing them off. It is so much easier to release the fish. I missed a barb earlier this year and I felt real bad pulling that hook out of that poor fish. I don't think that one made it and it was the first for me in a long time that did not swim away with ease. I do object to ticketing when the fisherman has made every effort to remove the barb. I was threatened once for this. Stinking barb broke off and left a tiny edge that the fisheries guy got quite rude about. I grind all my hooks now with a dremel before leaving the house. It is more sporting and much easier on the fish. Of course, only my humble opinion.

[chris wood]

I've been reading this and I cannot believe what some fishermen or fishing people are saying!!! If I put a barbed hook through my lip and then pull it out what do you think my chances of dying are?? ha ha ha. I read in this forum all the time and I think some people weigh in or post on this forum just because they got nothin else to do..

[pickrel pat]

i wish i could walk in to the store and start grabbing barbless hooks off the shelf! sucks pinchin barbs.......

[Toirtis]

I've been reading this and I cannot believe what some fishermen or fishing people are saying!!! If I put a barbed hook through my lip and then pull it out what do you think my chances of dying are??

That is one of the more clueless and ridiculous things posted on this board in the past week...

It is all about the damage done to a fish when removing a barbed vs. barbless hook (this includes longer handling time, time out of water, excess stress, etc), and later damage (infection, feeding issues, etc). There may be some argument over the actual mortality percentages (there are so many variables in this, that it is a difficult experiment to get clear, conclusive results from), but it cannot be denied that barbed hooks are more difficult and time-consuming to remove.

To each their own opinion, but it is the law here, and the trend towards single, barbless hooks is spreading quickly across North America, so get used to pinching your barbs.

[ak-71]

To each their own opinion, but it is the law here, and the trend towards single, barbless hooks is spreading quickly across North America, so get used to pinching your barbs.

One of my favorite quotes from one old Russian guy I knew is:

"With the most enthusiasm people do useless and often harmful things..."

It seems like in politics it's all they do and barbless thing seems to be a political issue to me now.

[GaryF]

I've been reading this and I cannot believe what some fishermen or fishing people are saying!!! If I put a barbed hook through my lip and then pull it out what do you think my chances of dying are??

Probably none, but lets toss your head under water and hold it there until we get it out and see how you do. Better yet, lets toss a #2 treble with barbs into your throat, toss you under the water, and rip it out and see how you fair with that one. :snapoutofit:

[ak-71]

Gary, you are not a fish :snapoutofit:

[GaryF]

I think you missed the point, go back and read it again and think about what I typed. If it still doesn't make sense, I'll explain it for you.

[McLeod]

Duane is going by the science and the science says barbless hooks are a feel good law. Not what someone thinks or feels or their own anecdotal evidence. The number one cause of fish mortality is fishing, not barbed hooks. Should we stop fishing to stop C&R mortality?


Going by Science ? What is Science ? I have a degree in Zoology ..In a mountain park lake I caught several Dozen cutties on barbed hooks and several dozen on Barbless. Barbless hooked fish are harder to keep on the hook and land.
Of all fish caught barbed hooked fish are harder to release and there is more bleeding and thus more mortality. I am not going to write a thesis on this but it is science. I will challenge any of Duane studies in regards to treble hooks.
The rate would be much narrower I suspect when fishing with flies on a single hook.

Yes the number one cause of fish mortality is fishing ..The point that is being made is that there is an increase in mortality rate with with the use of barbed hooks.

[slough shark]

I'm all for barbless in most situations, especially on treble hooks as it makes releasing them soooo much easier. The only issues that I have with barbless is when you are trying to pinch the barbs on a small fly (think size 16-20), a good portion of the time the hook breaks, I wish I could buy them barbless arghhh. Aside from that the only other time I wish I could use barbed hooks is when I'm ice fishing for whitefish, they are able to slip off the hook too easily some times lol.

[slimjim]

With a barbed hook you can have a lot more fun bringing in a fish, and I'm sure its a lot less stressful on the fish. With a barbless hook, you have to water ski the fish in, or you may loose the biggest fish ever. You can't bring a big fish up from over 18 feet and not hurt his chances of survival, but with a barbed hook you can take your time and bring the fish up slowly. I think making this a law is just another money grab for government. Most of us would fish barbless or with barbs, depending on what and where, but the government likes to think they are the only ones capable of making such decisions.

[Crossfire]

Fishing barbless is absolutely fine with me. Great for releasing fish and as long as you know what you are doing you dont loose fish because of it being barbless

[ak-71]

I think you missed the point, go back and read it again and think about what I typed. If it still doesn't make sense, I'll explain it for you.

I don't think it would be needed.
I think it was pointed out in some other recent thread - don't try to compare you abilities to stay underwater with fish ability to stay out of it to get to any conclusions. Analogy is a poor argument in this case. Some mammals can stay underwater for a very, very long time... So if you had different abilities to stay under water would it change how long fish can to stay without it? Nope... Just another pointless analogy.
Salamanders for example can regrow limbs and I suspect a mortality rate from lost legs is way lower than in humans in similar conditions, even if it makes us feel really sorry for them.
I think barbless/barbed would be a simple enough experiment which could be done in a large aquarium. Fish is fish in a lake, or in a fish tank. Everything else is just a talk about our feelings.
I am sorry to point out obvious things

[tommyguitar]

Going by Science ? What is Science ? I have a degree in Zoology ..In a mountain park lake I caught several Dozen cutties on barbed hooks and several dozen on Barbless. Barbless hooked fish are harder to keep on the hook and land.
Of all fish caught barbed hooked fish are harder to release and there is more bleeding and thus more mortality. I am not going to write a thesis on this but it is science. I will challenge any of Duane studies in regards to treble hooks.
The rate would be much narrower I suspect when fishing with flies on a single hook.

Yes the number one cause of fish mortality is fishing ..The point that is being made is that there is an increase in mortality rate with with the use of barbed hooks.
Great post. Yes, barbless is a key factor for the sustainability of our great fisheries.

[huntsfurfish]

Great post. Yes, barbless is a key factor for the sustainability of our great fisheries.

Definately not, at least not any studies I have read.

The differences between barbed and barbless is very low.

[209x50]

Going by Science ? What is Science ? I have a degree in Zoology ..In a mountain park lake I caught several Dozen cutties on barbed hooks and several dozen on Barbless. Barbless hooked fish are harder to keep on the hook and land.
Of all fish caught barbed hooked fish are harder to release and there is more bleeding and thus more mortality. I am not going to write a thesis on this but it is science. I will challenge any of Duane studies in regards to treble hooks.
The rate would be much narrower I suspect when fishing with flies on a single hook.

Yes the number one cause of fish mortality is fishing ..The point that is being made is that there is an increase in mortality rate with with the use of barbed hooks.
The science of studies that have shown that of all the variables that can lead to delayed mortality from being caught, whether the hook is barbed or not is the most insignificant. Far and away the largest killer of fish is being caught, followed by variables like water temp, length of fight, age of fish and a dozen others. All more important than the barb. If you feel good doing then continue on. But sometime you should read on HOW we got this law rammed down our throats by Ralph.

[Jayhad]

[/I][/B]

Definately not, at least not any studies I have read.



Can you produce theses studies?

[McLeod]

The science of studies that have shown that of all the variables that can lead to delayed mortality from being caught, whether the hook is barbed or not is the most insignificant. Far and away the largest killer of fish is being caught, followed by variables like water temp, length of fight, age of fish and a dozen others. All more important than the barb. If you feel good doing then continue on. But sometime you should read on HOW we got this law rammed down our throats by Ralph.

TJ I know all about how this law got added. Yes there are many variables...
The point is and what you seem not to be getting a grasp on is that if you go fishing and are using treble hooks ... Would more fish die if you use barbed over barbless at that particular time and the answer is YES. Is barbed or Barbless insignificant.... I would say that depends on the context of the study
and how it's measured.
Maybe we should head up to banff next summer fish some bull trout and
you can use spoons with barbed hooks and without..I know after the first bull rolls over on it's belly you will be convinced.

[Darren N]

I'm all for barbless in most situations, especially on treble hooks as it makes releasing them soooo much easier. The only issues that I have with barbless is when you are trying to pinch the barbs on a small fly (think size 16-20), a good portion of the time the hook breaks, I wish I could buy them barbless arghhh. Aside from that the only other time I wish I could use barbed hooks is when I'm ice fishing for whitefish, they are able to slip off the hook too easily some times lol.

I 100 percent agree. Nothing is more frustrating then trying to do good by pinching a barb and then have the hook break. I prefer fishing without barbs whether I break the odd one or not, but I am always concerned how anal F&W would be if they checked my hooks. At the best they are pinched down but they still have a bump of squished metal sitting there. I would also think the majority of us do not file down? Anyone from F&W reply or experience this situation?

[ak-71]

I try to roll them as I pinch and it breaks the barb most of the times.
I was only checked once with a bigger walleye hooks pinched broken. I had 2 on the line he checked one and said I was good to go. Quite reasonable I guess.

[Redfrog]

Do away with C/R and the barb/barbless debate is moot.

Get your catch for the day and go home and cook them up.:)

[KegRiver]

I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.

So what if you loose the biggest fish you ever caught because of it. Big deal, you still can catch enough for a meal and you still can catch enough to have a good time. Unless you have mental stability issues.
Besides you could very possibly catch that big fish at a later date.

[sheephunter]

I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.

.

So unnecessary laws are a good thing?:confused::confused::confused:

[tommyguitar]

[/I][/B]

Definately not, at least not any studies I have read.

The differences between barbed and barbless is very low.

:thinking-006:

How? I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has seen fish killed or injured with removal of a barbed hook. It's a no brainer. Got any links to these studies there?

[209x50]

TJ I know all about how this law got added. Yes there are many variables...
The point is and what you seem not to be getting a grasp on is that if you go fishing and are using treble hooks ... Would more fish die if you use barbed over barbless at that particular time and the answer is YES. Is barbed or Barbless insignificant.... I would say that depends on the context of the study
and how it's measured.
Maybe we should head up to banff next summer fish some bull trout and
you can use spoons with barbed hooks and without..I know after the first bull rolls over on it's belly you will be convinced.
TJ???
I have caught more than my share of fish and thousands were caught on trebles. The size of the hole in the fishes lip has no bearing on mortality.
The Internet is full of studies at least one was linked to in this thread. Barbless doesn't save fish.

[trooper]

I never release the fish I catch anyway. I fish for food period! That's the reason people fished to begin with. I only fish stocked reservoirs where you can take out your dinner (5 a day). So Why would I want to use barbless?? To me, it's a stupid law. I fish barbless because it's the law does not matter if I agree with it or not. I still say it's stupid. So why don't the powers that be change the law so that fishing with either style hook is optional on bodies of water that are stocked?

[209x50]

Do away with C/R and the barb/barbless debate is moot.

Get your catch for the day and go home and cook them up.:)
That is the law in some countries. C&R fishing is causing pain to the fish for the pleasure of the angler is the thought process behind these catch and kill laws.

[tommyguitar]

I never release the fish I catch anyway. I fish for food period! That's the reason people fished to begin with. I only fish stocked reservoirs where you can take out your dinner (5 a day). So Why would I want to use barbless?? To me, it's a stupid law. I fish barbless because it's the law does not matter if I agree with it or not. I still say it's stupid. So why don't the powers that be change the law so that fishing with either style hook is optional on bodies of water that are stocked?

What if you catch a little gaffer? You want to release him but you can't? Or say people were using barbed hooks at PCR. No way that place would sustain as well as it has.

[sheephunter]

What if you catch a little gaffer? You want to release him but you can't? Or say people were using barbed hooks at PCR. No way that place would sustain as well as it has.

Why not? Barbed hooks do not increase mortality, especially in walleye.

[209x50]

I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.


So one day you have a brain fart and get caught fishing with a barbed hook or the CO decided you didn't pinch that barb down far enough. You still happy with getting a ticket for an unnecessary law?

[tommyguitar]

Why not? Barbed hooks do not increase mortality, especially in walleye.

How do you remove a barbed hook besides ripping it out, or pinching the barb while it is inside the mouth.
Honestly you have to be ****ing joking me if you think ripping a barbed hook out of a walleye's mouth isn't going to harm it.

[sheephunter]

How do you remove a barbed hook besides ripping it out, or pinching the barb while it is inside the mouth.
Honestly you have to be ****ing joking me if you think ripping a barbed hook out of a walleye's mouth isn't going to harm it.

Not joking at all. I've never really had to rip a hook out of a walleye. Typically the hook creates a slightly larger hole during the fight and the hook slips easily out, barb and all. Hooks and their removal don't kill fish. Improper handling sure can though....regardless of the type of hook. That's why the studies show what they do.

[McLeod]

TJ???
I have caught more than my share of fish and thousands were caught on trebles. The size of the hole in the fishes lip has no bearing on mortality.
The Internet is full of studies at least one was linked to in this thread. Barbless doesn't save fish.

Richard you and TJ are started to look alike ...lol...

You have your opinion and nothing will change that. I would agree with you a little more when it comes to pike and walleye but definately not Trout... Of course those who keep fish in live wells for tournaments also think they aren't killing fish either but we all know that studies prove that is does kill fish because of the stress.

We are not going back to barbed hooks period..

[sheephunter]

Of course those who keep fish in live wells for tournaments also think they aren't killing fish either but we all know that studies prove that is does kill fish because of the stress.

..

A pretty broad assumption there. I, think most tournament anglers are well versed on livewell mortality. It's likely no more than a normal day of C&R fishing providing tournaments are held during cool water periods. Heavy mortality from properly run and timed tournaments is another myth right up there alongside barbless hook mortality. I guess it's easy to believe though for those that have never looked at the research.

[AK47]

How do you remove a barbed hook besides ripping it out, or pinching the barb while it is inside the mouth.
Honestly you have to be ****ing joking me if you think ripping a barbed hook out of a walleye's mouth isn't going to harm it.

I think what hurts walleye more is catching and releasing 100's of them in 0 limit lakes and eventually stunting them. No surprise to me that biggest walleye are caught in lakes/rivers where you can keep them.

[KegRiver]

So unnecessary laws are a good thing?:confused::confused::confused:

I didn't say that. ? But maybe you think so.

[sheephunter]

I didn't say that. ? But maybe you think so.

No I oppose the barbless law.......you were the one that said it was okay even if it was unnecessary.

Originally Posted by KegRiver
I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.

[McLeod]

A pretty broad assumption there. I, think most tournament anglers are well versed on livewell mortality. It's likely no more than a normal day of C&R fishing providing tournaments are held during cool water periods. Heavy mortality from properly run and timed tournaments is another myth right up there alongside barbless hook mortality. I guess it's easy to believe though for those that have never looked at the research.

No that is where you are way off.. Call Micheal Sullivan he can explain that one to you. Fish are dying 3 or 4 days later from the stress...

[sheephunter]

No that is where you are way off.. Call Micheal Sullivan he can explain that one to you. Fish are dying 3 or 4 days later from the stress...

LOL...I helped with those studies. I understand delayed mortality very well. You should read the study....you'd learn a lot. There are some very good ones out of Saskatchewan and Minnesota too that pretty well all offer up the same results. Where do you think the current rules for the timing of tournaments come from in Alberta? Delayed mortality is very low if tournaments are timed right.....kinda like barbed hooks.

[ak-71]

I oppose any unnecessary laws. If barbless can be demonstrated to be shuch - I oppose it big time.
Pinch them if it makes life easier or you just want to do so out of some irrational beliefs or whatever. I would where I have to release a lot of illegal fish

[pickrel pat]

question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?

[KegRiver]

So one day you have a brain fart and get caught fishing with a barbed hook or the CO decided you didn't pinch that barb down far enough. You still happy with getting a ticket for an unnecessary law?



It is my responsibility to know the law and abide by the law, whether I agree with the law or not. If that were to happen, and I were to get caught, I would plead guilty and pay the fine without complaint.

A mistake is one thing. I don't intend to make mistakes, although I know I will, but I don't expect a pass when I do make one.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I'm happy with it. It is the law.

If I don't like a law, the thing to do is to lobby government to change that law, or to enter politics, (pattooee ) and try to change things to what I want.

[McLeod]

[QUOTE=sheephunter;1145903]LOL...I helped with those studies. I understand delayed mortality very well. You should read the study....you'd learn a lot. There are some very good ones out of Saskatchewan and Minnesota too that pretty well all offer up the same results. Where do you think the current rules for the timing of tournaments come from in Alberta? Delayed mortality is very low if tournaments are timed right.....kinda like barbed hooks.[/QUOTE

I know all about the changes but again there is still mortality.
I am beginning to believe your becoming a little skepticle in your older age.
You need to do the barbed experiment on some cutties at high elevation then you will get it..

[KegRiver]

No I oppose the barbless law.......you were the one that said it was okay even if it was unnecessary.

Where is it written that having no problem with a law is the same as liking that law ?

I don't have a problem getting out of bed in the morning but I don't like it.

LOL IS that too deep for you ?

[AK47]

question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?

I do not hate barbless hooks and did not see much of the rate drop after fishing all my life with barbs and going barbless after moving to Alberta, but I think it should be left as option and not forced as a law. If I want to catch fish and keep I would rather use barbed and wice versa if I am planning to release it.

[KegRiver]

I do not hate barbless hooks and did not see much of the rate drop after fishing all my life with barbs and going barbless after moving to Alberta, but I think it should be left as option and not forced as a law. If I want to catch fish and keep I would rather use barbed and wice versa if I am planning to release it.

I would agree with you, if there were no size limits. But if we have to release even one fish out of twenty, doesn't it make sense to make that release as easy as possible ?

Lets just say, for the sake of avoiding argument, that barbed or barbless makes little difference to survival. Wouldn't it still make sense to limit the time that particular fish was handled and thus limit the stress to the fish.

After all, the intent is to enjoy the sport, or feed ourselves, not to cause another creature discomfort, is it not ?

Like a lot of people I hated the idea of going barbless. But once I did, I found no reason to object any longer.
It's so simple to pinch the barbs, and I catch just as many fish as I did before,
Plus I I don't think loose no more now then I did with barbed hooks, besides I find it much easier to release a fish that is too small, and it costs me nothing.

What's to hate. I'm not saying I love the idea. Just I don't see what there is to complain about.

And if it means one more fish in 100 lives, why not ?

Surely no one would argue that going barbless results in more fish dying !

That's about the only reason I could see for fighting this law.
After all, we have much bigger problems, like poachers.

Now there's something to get up in arms about.

[huntsfurfish]

:thinking-006:

How? I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has seen fish killed or injured with removal of a barbed hook. It's a no brainer. Got any links to these studies there?

I highly doubt the barb killed the fish:) Very likely poor fish handling skills.

And sorry but I no longer have the links - computer crashed and they were lost.
Convenient eh. But they are out there. I will however repeat that there appears to be no significant difference between barbed and barbless when it comes to fish mortality. I believe that was even admitted by some of the Bios prior to it becoming law. So why have a law that has no real reason to exist?
Its just a feel good law to help us feel all warm and fuzzy.

[sheephunter]

[I know all about the changes but again there is still mortality.
..

I don't think that was ever in dispute....just the percentage was.

[huntsfurfish]

In the past when using barbs. Just a guess and an estimate, but probably 80-90%(possibly more) of the fish I catch can be released without picking them up. Hooked in the lip, just a little twist with pliers or forceps and the fish was gone! Those that were hooked in the mouth were gently picked up and quickly unhooked then released and a small amount that were hooked severely line was cut immediatly or hook was snipped(if using cranks etc). Fish was released quickly. Fish that were hooked in touchy locations and bleeding out or gill hooked would likely not survive under any conditions and kept if legal to do so.

Anyone can achieve that with a little knowledge and care.

I have seen people digging out 20cent barbless hooks under the guise and reasoning that its easier to remove them- go figure.

Fish handling people, nothing more nothing less!

[sheephunter]

question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?

Really it's got nothing to do with pinching the barb or not and everything to do with having yet another law imposed upon us that serves no purpose. I'm all for laws that serve a purpose but I can't see how anyone can't have a problem with an unneccessary law but apparently some don't. At some point we have to protect our personal freedoms. Anyone of us could be busted for this. It's easy not to pinch a barb down to a CO's satisfaction. You don't, you get caught and suddenly you are a poacher over a law that made no sense in the first place. That's why I have a problem with it.

[KegRiver]

Really it's got nothing to do with pinching the barb or not and everything to do with having yet another law imposed upon us that serves no purpose. I'm all for laws that serve a purpose but I can't see how anyone can't have a problem with an unneccessary law but apparently some don't. At some point we have to protect our personal freedoms. Anyone of us could be busted for this. It's easy not to pinch a barb down to a CO's satisfaction. You don't, you get caught and suddenly you are a poacher over a law that made no sense in the first place. That's why I have a problem with it.

I can see why you would object to it, if you think that.
I don't see it that way.

For one thing, I give F&W more credit. At least around here they don't hand out tickets over trivial matters like a barb not pinched to their satisfaction.
At least around here they don't.

For another, so what if there isn't a lot of difference between the two mortality rate wise. Going barbless is so simple and easy, why fight it ?
Is it the possibility you might loose that big one ? That would be pretty shallow don't you agree.

I think we have far bigger battles to fight, like poaching and the perception, even among members of this site, that ethics mean nothing. So long as it's legal, they say, go for it.
Like the single fellow who shoots four or more big game animals in a year, just because he can legally do so.

Now that's something worth getting up in arms about.

[sheephunter]

I can see why you would object to it, if you think that.
I don't see it that way.

For one thing, I give F&W more credit. At least around here they don't hand out tickets over trivial matters like a barb not pinched to their satisfaction.
At least around here they don't.

For another, so what if there isn't a lot of difference between the two mortality rate wise. Going barbless is so simple and easy, why fight it ?
Is it the possibility you might loose that big one ? That would be pretty shallow don't you agree.

I think we have far bigger battles to fight, like poaching and the perception, even among members of this site, that ethics mean nothing. So long as it's legal, they say, go for it.
Like the single fellow who shoots four or more big game animals in a year, just because he can legally do so.

Now that's something worth getting up in arms about.

I guess you are right keg, we should be up in arms about hunters hunting legally and not about laws that infringe on our personal freedoms for no reason.....ya, that makes sense :thinking-006::snapoutofit:

I'll fight it because I still believe in personal freedoms keg. As for COs not handing out tickets, it's a big world out there with many personality types. Sounds like you have some good ones up there. Other places they can't wait to write you a ticket.

[209x50]

question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?
I don't see that i lose any fish from barbless hooks. Harder on bait for sure. I'm against any stupid ineffective law like barbless hooks and the long gun registry.

[Jayhad]

I'll fight it because I still believe in personal freedoms keg.

Let's twist this arguement up a bit eh?

So you are signing legalize marijuana law petitions then,

shoot man if I culitivate and consume my own pot there is no involvement with criminal elements and the MAN is infringing on my personal freedoms, man. I guess the anti-marijuana laws are just there to create jobs for Correction Officers then.

in no way do I cultivate marijuana, just wanted to add some fire to the flames

You can bieotch and moan and throw insults at those that don't follow your logic all you want on this forum and NOTHING will happen. Take your studies, write a proposal, get WU and TU to champion your cause and get this "useless, freedom infringing" law rescended or continue to beat this dead horse

[sheephunter]

Let's twist this arguement up a bit eh?

So you are signing legalize marijuana law petitions then,

shoot man if I culitivate and consume my own pot there is no involvement with criminal elements and the MAN is infringing on my personal freedoms, man. I guess the anti-marijuana laws are just there to create jobs for Correction Officers then.

in no way do I cultivate marijuana, just wanted to add some fire to the flames

You can bieotch and moan and throw insults at those that don't follow your logic all you want on this forum and NOTHING will happen. Take your studies, write a proposal, get WU and TU to champion your cause and get this "useless, freedom infringing" law rescended or continue to beat this dead horse

You'd have an arguement if I did indeed believe that our current laws regarding the growing of pot serve no useful purpose but I believe they do so no, I don't sign petitions to legalize it. I was quite vocal about getting rid of the gun registry though. That I felt was a useless law that infringed on our personal freedoms :)

[whitetail Junkie]

I hate barbless hooks because bait falls off them to easy,with leeches going for $5/dozen,looseing more bait,not from fish,has cost me extra $$$.

Im not sure if barbs are any worse on fish,maybe trout??

[KegRiver]

I guess you are right keg, we should be up in arms about hunters hunting legally


You twist my words, to win your argument. That's low class man, real low class.

What goes around come around.


Have a nice day.

[chubbdarter]

Im not sure about any studies that are done on this matter. My opinion stands similar to C@R data, whats the long term effect or mortality numbers. Those numbers really cant be fact without human scientific involvment and that there alone taints the study of natural recovery.
But i have noticed on the water some basic differences.
Ive seen quite a few fisherman allow intentional slack when they get a fish near and with a couple shakes the fish releases itself. Many recreational anglers are simply scared to touch fish. The law has made them realize this technique that their limited ability never allowed them to realize on their own.
Ive also noticed fisherman dont grasp fish as hard to remove hooks...which makes sense, when compared to pulling out a arrow with a practice point or a broadhead.
I believe that alone, benifits the general public, does the law make sense to experienced fisherman with good fish handling skills...nah maybe not.

[sheephunter]

You twist my words, to win your argument. That's low class man, real low class.

What goes around come around.


Have a nice day.

LOL....I twisted nothing keg. You were using your personal ethics to judge legal hunters and saying it was a bigger battle to fight than a useless law the forces us to fish barbless. I disagree on so many levels.

Don't you remember saying:
I think we have far bigger battles to fight, like poaching and the perception, even among members of this site, that ethics mean nothing. So long as it's legal, they say, go for it.
Like the single fellow who shoots four or more big game animals in a year, just because he can legally do so.

[TyreeUM]

barbless - barbed whatever, what I do know is that barbless hooks make snagging fish a lot harder...and to that I will support barbless till I am dead in the grave - I cant stand those idiots.

[pickrel pat]

Ive also noticed fisherman dont grasp fish as hard to remove hooks...which makes sense, when compared to pulling out a arrow with a practice point or a broadhead.
I believe that alone, benifits the general public, does the law make sense to experienced fisherman with good fish handling skills...nah maybe not.

BINGO! SQUEEZING THE CRAP OUT OF FISH = BAD........ MANY NOVICE FISHERMAN DO THIS......... now tell me........ does a hook pop out easier barbed or not barbed?....... remember not all fisherman are pro at fish handling techniques like you..... even YOU must agree to this....

[TyreeUM]

BINGO! SQUEEZING THE CRAP OUT OF FISH = BAD........ MANY NOVICE FISHERMAN DO THIS......... now tell me........ does a hook pop out easier barbed or not barbed?....... remember not all fisherman are pro at fish handling techniques like you..... even YOU must agree to this....

yeah but dad always taught me to squeeze the eyes of pike real hard to calm it down to take out my five of diamonds....

[KegRiver]

LOL....I twisted nothing keg. You were using your personal ethics to judge legal hunters and saying it was a bigger battle to fight than a useless law the forces us to fish barbless. I disagree on so many levels.

Don't you remember saying:

So it is okay for you to argue against a law you think is useless, but not okay for me to object to a law that allows people to harvest far more then they need or can use ?

What you did was try to paint me as a hypocrite and or a fool for doing exactly what you are doing.

You disagree with one law, I disagree with a different law, or laws.


As I said. Low class. Real low class.

I've got better things to do then argue with the likes of you.

[pickrel pat]

yeah but dad always taught me to squeeze the eyes of pike real hard to calm it down to take out my five of diamonds....

dads know best! lol.

[pickrel pat]

BINGO! SQUEEZING THE CRAP OUT OF FISH = BAD........ MANY NOVICE FISHERMAN DO THIS......... now tell me........ does a hook pop out easier barbed or not barbed?....... remember not all fisherman are pro at fish handling techniques like you..... even YOU must agree to this....

wasnt directed at you chubb, just used your quote cause i liked it....

[pickrel pat]

waiting.........

[sheephunter]

So it is okay for you to argue against a law you think is useless, but not okay for me to object to a law that allows people to harvest far more then they need or can use ?

What you did was try to paint me as a hypocrite and or a fool for doing exactly what you are doing.

You disagree with one law, I disagree with a different law, or laws.


As I said. Low class. Real low class.

I've got better things to do then argue with the likes of you.

I think you are missing the point keg. I never imposed my ethics on those that follow the barbless law. In fact I follow it myself. I disagree with the law but I don't criticize those that do things legally. You, not so much. No hypocracy there. Honestly keg, I'm not the one holding the paint brush. I think we are straying far away from the intent of this thread. Give Duane's column a read in this month's AO....you may change your mind.

[pickrel pat]

man..... i see people squeezeing the crap outta fish removing a hook, even stepping on them,........ jaw spreaders on a 3/4 lb fish(ouch!).... the list gos on! barbless makes these silly things happen less often........ waiting....

[huntsfurfish]

BINGO! SQUEEZING THE CRAP OUT OF FISH = BAD........ MANY NOVICE FISHERMAN DO THIS......... now tell me........ does a hook pop out easier barbed or not barbed?....... remember not all fisherman are pro at fish handling techniques like you..... even YOU must agree to this....

They do that with barbless too!

[pickrel pat]

They do that with barbless too!

not as often, or as hard, or as long!!!!!!! you can do better than that....

[huntsfurfish]

Anybody want to volunteer to pinch the barbs on my hooks:)

My eyesight aint as good as it used to be.

[pickrel pat]

sheep? i like you but comment on my posts please........

[sheephunter]

sheep? i like you but comment on my posts please........

Ummm....I honestly can't say what other people do.

[pickrel pat]

Ummm....I honestly can't say what other people do.

yes, but i can.... i see it.... out of the umteen thousand fisher people in alberta, not everyone has good handling techniques..... barbless helps these people to a degree....... no?

[TyreeUM]

I like turtles

[huntsfurfish]

I like turtles

Chocolate or meat?

[pickrel pat]

mmm mmm.... i like tuuurtles.....

[sheephunter]

yes, but i can.... i see it.... out of the umteen thousand fisher people in alberta, not everyone has good handling techniques..... barbless helps these people to a degree....... no?

I honestly can't say. Not saying you are wrong but can't say you are right either. You are correct that not everyone has good handling skills but I'm not sure a barbless hook improves those. Perhaps.....but maybe not. It is an interesting arguement though.

[chubbdarter]

the fact becomes even more magnified with the super sharp chemically sharpened hooks. These hooks pierce and dont leave a big entry point. The hooks also penetrate hard bone and cartilage. With a barb its requires pliers and possibly jaw spreaders. This operation takes time..."hurry go get the pliers while i pin this fish to the ground".....that alone may be a death sentence for the fish.
Even if the fish is drug up the bank and flops around on the dirt and spits a unbarbed hook, it chances must be better than it waiting for the mash unit to gather the surgical tools for a hook extraction. Especially if he is fishing alone or as in many cases scared of fish OR as in many cases like a dog who chases cars and finally catches one.

[slivers86]

Agree fully chubb... one problem I have though (not attacking your post by any means, you're a great guy) is the people who "hurry go get the pliers while i pin this fish to the ground"

:argue2:

How hard is it to carry a set of pliers, scissors and a net? A net can be your #1 aide in a safe + healthy release. Since I started using a net ALWAYS, I have rarely even touched the fish I catch, and my release time is probably 20-30 seconds after landing the fish with a photo.

[chubbdarter]

Agree fully chubb... one problem I have though (not attacking your post by any means, you're a great guy) is the people who

:argue2:

How hard is it to carry a set of pliers, scissors and a net? A net can be your #1 aide in a safe + healthy release. Since I started using a net ALWAYS, I have rarely even touched the fish I catch, and my release time is probably 20-30 seconds after landing the fish with a photo.



most definity ......but even though good fisherman catch most of the fish.....because of sheer numbers the group that doesnt expect to catch a fish is still huge or the unequipped angler makes up a large percentage also.
Its like this in every sport...some guys golf with 4 clubs in total.....some guys need a cart to carry their clubs.

Maybe people would be happier if the Government made this law.......If angling you must be in immediate possesion of long forceps, a net adequate to keep a fish in the water and jaws spreaders......not sure that is a improvement on keeping personal rights....BUT i do know if the Government wanted a easy cash grab....that would work.

[sheephunter]

most definity ......but even though good fisherman catch most of the fish.....because of sheer numbers the group that doesnt expect to catch a fish is still huge or the unequipped angler makes up a large percentage also.
Its like this in every sport...some guys golf with 4 clubs in total.....some guys need a cart to carry their clubs.

Maybe people would be happier if the Government made this law.......If angling you must be in immediate possesion of long forceps, a net adequate to keep a fish in the water and jaws spreaders......not sure that is a improvement on keeping personal rights....BUT i do know if the Government wanted a easy cash grab....that would work.

Or like a couple Europen countries, they could make C&R illegal. ;)

[chubbdarter]

Or like a couple Europen countries, they could make C&R illegal. ;)


Yup as with everything there is some valid points to that too

[slivers86]

Or like a couple Europen countries, they could make C&R illegal. ;)

that would completely take the enjoyment out of fishing, and lets be honest, in alberta, if you make C&R illegal with these regs, we're doomed. All fish would be extinct, and quickly!

[sheephunter]

that would completely take the enjoyment out of fishing, and lets be honest, in alberta, if you make C&R illegal with these regs, we're doomed. All fish would be extinct, and quickly!

Well all fishermen might be extinct....They'd just close waters to angling all together that could not support a harvest. BTW, I'm not suggesting it.

[slivers86]

Well all fishermen might be extinct....They'd just close waters to angling all together that could not support a harvest. BTW, I'm not suggesting it.

I didn't think you were. Most of us here are sensible :sHa_sarcasticlol:

But true. Could you imagine the size the bulls would get with less pressure on some waters. A 30+ cutt! a massive brookie! oh boy I'm getting hungry!

[chubbdarter]

some cases ive witnessed in my years of fishing.

A young fellow fishing and a good parent with no liking or desire to fish sitting in a lawn chair enjoying the sunshine reading a book at Police lake......kid catches a fish and Dad's reaction......good for you, but has the look on his face like...oh my gawd now what. In that case i tryed to show him how to grab the hook with pliers and roll to allow the fishe's wgt. to remove the hook. But with the barb and the fish lacking wgt it didnt work well...took a couple hard shakes. Without a barb it s my opinion that method works well even with tiny fish.

Keho lake.....pulling up to the launch in the boat.....young couple on fishing on the rocks ..i ask hows fishing?......young lady says good i guess i have a fish on my line but we are too scared to take it off, its got huge teeth and its slippery!!!!!!...possibly barbless the fish would have released itself.

Not that im overly compassionate to the un prepared but kindness must be shown. Maybe if all the law does is give the uneducated a easier way out of their unforseen dilema thats enough, after all every sport fish is important and belongs to all of us.

[slivers86]

Chubb, you're a class act my friend.

Always have a wise word and I don't think I can add to that. I taught a young kid on the sheep how to properly release his fish, after seeing him throw 3 little rainbows into the water after taking the hook out. Saw him late in the season out there with his mom again, and he was letting them go nicely in the water. Its rewarding to see you've taught someone something!

[npauls]

Anybody want to volunteer to pinch the barbs on my hooks:)

My eyesight aint as good as it used to be.

I will but I am charging you per hour so I think you may have to take out a second mortgage to be able to afford it.

[Gust]

My dad has a tool for deep mouth hook ups, which is a long stick that you guide into the fishes mouth along the line, it just guides itself, when at the hook, you push a bit more and the hook comes out and hooks itself into the tool,, very smart and efficient.

I hate using spreaders and someone had posted a type on here that I'd like to get that dont go thru the mouth.

we used to have a file that was like a tiny ring of whet stone/file (for smaller hooks), that you feed the hook into, turn a couple of times and it not only debarbs but sharpens the hook.

And finally, there were these hooks that I got on the coast where they were more like a really small and sharp shovel as opposed to a needle point hook, they would set really easy and came out as easily.

When I get home I'll take a picture of the quick release tool and post it, it's great for dinker trout and newbies who don't want to throat cut or gill cut when they want to release their fish. We've also changed from trebles to long shank single hooks when bait fishing for lunkers, as they bury nice in the bait and are a breeze at removing.

[BGSH]

I wanna buy an island and fish from it all day long and have a nice bar on the beach.

[ak-71]

I could do without an island nice bar and no beach.
As long as I can fish all day long and hove some bar - I am good.

My personal conclusion for the barbless / barbed issue is:

1. Nobody has any reliable hard data if it has any impact.
2. Yet everybody has his own (the most right) opinion
3. People will never get along
4. Last and the most important - the law may be stupid, but it is the law.
I'm pinching.

[BGSH]

I could do without an island nice bar and no beach.
As long as I can fish all day long and hove some bar - I am good.

My personal conclusion for the barbless / barbed issue is:

1. Nobody has any reliable hard data if it has any impact.
2. Yet everybody has his own (the most right) opinion
3. People will never get along
4. Last and the most important - the law may be stupid, but it is the law.
I'm pinching.

What about a bar on the beach, woman serving you all day night long, well fishing in no wind, 25 degrees out catching fish all day long well getting a nice tan, weight lifting GTL gym tan laundry, as i call it GTLF, gym tan laundry and fishing

[ak-71]

What about a bar on the beach, woman serving you all day night long, well fishing in no wind, 25 degrees out catching fish all day long well getting a nice tan, weight lifting GTL gym tan laundry, as i call it GTLF, gym tan laundry and fishing

I stand by fishing and a bar. Since I am happily married for quite some time now - fishing and a bar is what I need. And after several years in Houston I don't care for tan and prefer ice fishing and colder is better. The rest of the abbreviations and terms I didn't get, but English is my second language.

[tommyguitar]

You'd have an arguement if I did indeed believe that our current laws regarding the growing of pot serve no useful purpose but I believe they do so no, I don't sign petitions to legalize it. I was quite vocal about getting rid of the gun registry though. That I felt was a useless law that infringed on our personal freedoms :)

:bad_boys_20:

[BGSH]

:acigar:

[huntsfurfish]

I will but I am charging you per hour so I think you may have to take out a second mortgage to be able to afford it.

I was waiting for a bite on that one. We could probably set up a 6 -12 month contract. You should be able to complete all pinching in 12 months.:lol:

Seriously though, it shouldnt take longer than 9 months.:)

[Freedom55]

About one month ago I boated two 10.5 lb walleyes, and numerous smaller, using a Superlite PT and PT Energy10 spincaster, borrowed from and set up for a right hander,
9' X 6lb fluro leader and barbless size 12 hook and leech. Never "Lindy rigged" before. Worked so well I bought that combination later that night! Set it up for a lefty.

A #12 hook is tiny and the law provided for the barbless look because of the slot size mandated by the regulations.

No one can tell me that barbless hooks lose fish. During the two days of the Vanity Cup nearly 2 tons of fish were weighed and released. Probably close to that weight in slot sized fish that never got weighed. All on barbless hooks! Never mind how many were landed in the five days of pre-fishing. Our boat alone handled 30 or 50 walleyes.

Having said that, all of my lures and hooks get the pinch treatment before it goes into the box. I replace most of the trebles with either single barbless or with red triple grip trebles, again barbless. Bulk hooks get pinched before they get snelled. Never sweat it when the F&W shows up. In any jurisdiction.

I also recall (70's?80's?) that PantherMartin was including a single barbless hook in their packaging for the spinners. You could change them out if you happened to be going to B.C. to fish. Alberta and to some extent Saskatchewan (c&r fisheries) are now barbless also, and I rarely see barbless hooks for sale anymore.

Free

[WayneChristie]

I stand by fishing and a bar. Since I am happily married for quite some time now - fishing and a bar is what I need. And after several years in Houston I don't care for tan and prefer ice fishing and colder is better. The rest of the abbreviations and terms I didn't get, but English is my second language.

some days english is shawns second language too :sHa_sarcasticlol: Ive spoken english all my life and I dont know what hes saying sometimes!

[BGSH]

some days english is shawns second language too :sHa_sarcasticlol: Ive spoken english all my life and I dont know what hes saying sometimes!

haha :budo:

[Eddy62]

some days english is shawns second language too :sHa_sarcasticlol: Ive spoken english all my life and I dont know what hes saying sometimes!

got that right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,