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Old 04-15-2010, 10:49 AM
spopadyn spopadyn is offline
 
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Default Barbless don"t save fish - they just make money for f&w

I have been reading a lot about all the studies on barbless hooks. It has virtually no statistical difference in fish mortality then barbed hooks - this is an absolute fact. We should really be lobbying the government to change back a rule that had nothing to do with science and everthing to do with generating more fines. What does affect fish mortality is hook size. Why doesn't the F&W institue a minimum hook size?
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:54 AM
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I've seen the #'s in the past as well, but really I wouldn't switch back to barbs, the ease of releasing a fish with barbless is nice to have. Truth be told, the only fishing I do where barbs would be beneficial is salmon fishing due to the fact that I'm trying to fill the freezer and they have hard mouths making it pretty easy to shake the hook. But that's another province anyway.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:59 AM
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Barbless is fine with me.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:08 AM
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ive read a fair number of different studies and opinions, and it seems that if you can see through the numbers there is some info to be had. from what i understand, the barb itself is not the problem for the fish. just studying the effect of the barb shows with or without there is little difference to the fish. with a barb, basically the fish swims away with a little different size of hole in its lip. in cases where the study goes a little deeper however, they looked into the handling time of the angler while digging the hook out, and thats where the difference was noted. im not gonna spew numbers, and im sure the links will start rolling in, but survival for barbless hooks was higher based on that in the articles i read. the less you handle a fish, the better its chance of survival upon release. with barbless hooks, handling time was reduced and that was the real reason for the difference.

personally i dont eat fish, they all go back. i have been pinching barbs since long before it was law, and if i can i dont even touch the fish when i get them up. i prefer to just reach out with the needlenose and pop the hook free....unless id like a picture. id love to think they all survive, but i suspect i unknowingly kill the odd one.

so from your tone....im guessing you forgot to pinch the new hooks you bought and were fined?
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:12 AM
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It is a lot easier to release fish w/o barbs, think about it, 5mins out of the water vs 6mins out of the water. If barbless saves 1 trophy fish from dying from stress/etc and loses 5, I'm all for it. Though...if more people got caught using barbs(like I'm sure you did for posting this), SRD would have more money, and be able to maintain the fisheries abit better...
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:16 AM
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if this happened, you will be glad you have a barbless hook!
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:17 AM
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With the huge increase in fishing pressure on Alberta waters in the last few years comes the increase of fish being caught. Past rants on this forum say that people don't bring in as many fish with barbless hooks versus barbed. With fewer fish being brought in, the lower the risk the fish will be mishandled for release (unless your bonking it, I don't care). People are dangling trout on their hooks for pics, fingers in gills, jawspreaders left in for pics, gang treble hook setups (1 each for: eye, gill, finger) and that's the problem added with the number of anglers today. There's plenty of photo's in this forum if you look. I don't think your arguement has any wind in its sails.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:28 AM
LacLaBicheNS LacLaBicheNS is offline
 
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in my opinion an experienced angler removing the hook has no problem with barbed, but a in experienced angler has a harder time removing barbed hooks which leads to more handling time and more damage..
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LacLaBicheNS View Post
in my opinion an experienced angler removing the hook has no problem with barbed, but a in experienced angler has a harder time removing barbed hooks which leads to more handling time and more damage..
X2 - this is the whole reasoning behind barbless hooks IMO - less handling of fish means less mortality.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:35 AM
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I completely agree, the science doesn't show that barbless has any influence in the fishes survival. The barbless hook rules are just another government interference in our lives and simply a law made for people who obey laws.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
The barbless hook rules are just another government interference in our lives and simply a law made for people who obey laws.
You are right, excellent point, I changed my mind.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
I completely agree, the science doesn't show that barbless has any influence in the fishes survival. The barbless hook rules are just another government interference in our lives and simply a law made for people who obey laws.
Well said Richard!
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:42 AM
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I agree this law is a money maker, however I support fishing with barb less hooks in some situations. I think it should be up to the angler to make that decision.

I caught a small pike on a large rapala with 2 trebles. that poor pike must have had all six barbed points set. I did not feel good about that situation. but if I am jigging, or bottom bouncing where there is a single hook. by all means let it be barbed. if you set the hook quickly. the single hook will almost always be in the roof on the walleye.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:42 AM
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trying to fish the trebles out of a smaller pike can be tough , worse with barbs, pliers and barbless is the way to go. An afternoon on pigeon recycling 100+ fish, barbless 2-3 seconds to release, very easy i have no problem with the rule ! if it costs me the odd fish, oh well !
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2010, 11:49 AM
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Thumbs up barbs

guys get with the program ,MANITOBA HAS BEEN BARBLESS FOR 20 +YEARS and have been barbless myself for that long .i have been guideing in man and n.w.t. for 25yrs and it does make a difference great rule my 2cents worth
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:52 AM
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I have never understood the brewhaha over barbless I have never noticed a stagering increase in loosing fish. But I have noticed the ease of release, and fully belive that the less you handle the fish the better.

It has come to the point where I am considering replacing most of my treble hooks on my pike gear to single. Too much trouble getting even a barbless treble hook out of the gullet of a smallish pike, and it is the small fish where hooking mortality is a problem, not so much the bigger.
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2010, 12:02 PM
sdimedru sdimedru is offline
 
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I'm for it...barbless doesn't make things worse for the fish does it???
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:05 PM
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I hear all of your opinions but mine stays the same.. barbless decreases the stress on the fish and helps release them in a better state than if the hooks had barbs. it doesn't cost more money if you pinch the barbs, but it does cost more if you buy barbless hooks.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:07 PM
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I wouldn't fish with barbs even if it was legal, i like to spend as little time unhooking fish as possible so i have more time to catch them.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:22 PM
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You know what, barbed or barbless hooks makes no difference to me, I can't see where I lose any more or less fish. What does bother me is the day I forget to jump through big brothers hoops and don't pinch down a barb and then get a ticket for it. Totally useless law will have just made a criminal out of me. How does that make sense?
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:33 PM
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The only thing about the small flys that I use is that I can't see if the barb has been pinched. My fingers can't usually feel it neither.

Got a magnifing glass now. Problem solved.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:59 PM
Crusty Crusty is offline
 
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5mins out of the water vs 6mins ??????????????


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  #23  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:03 PM
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for an experienced angler barbed or non barbed hooks should not affect the amount of fish landed. one of the nice things about barbs is they hold the bait on the Jig. its a real pain trying to keep minnows on, messing around with bits of rubber band. or taking a newbie out and seeing that fish get away because the did not keep the line tight. I feel it should not be law, and let the public decide what is best
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:09 PM
mclean mclean is offline
 
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I don,t catch or lose anymore fish because of a barbless hook, i personaly don,t agree with a barbless hook law, with barbless hooks it is a lot harder to keep bait on the hook. As for fish that are hooked deep , it is more than likely the fishermans fault for not setting the hook sooner, improper handling of caught fish is more of more damaging than the barbed hook.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:13 PM
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Bait is the one issue with barbess, I get around it with bits of twistertail. I just bite off one of the segments and use it to hold on the bait. Upside you can play with color to get a possible edge.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFish View Post
... If barbless saves 1 trophy fish from dying from stress/etc and loses 5, I'm all for it. ...
*Groan* Where have I heard something eerily similar, before?

Bill C-68 - If it saves just one life ... ... ...
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  #27  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:28 PM
javlin101 javlin101 is offline
 
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I am also for Barb less, does not cause any real grief & I think it does help on mortility rates.

An experinced angler has no problem removing barbed or non barbed hooks. In experinced anglers would. Bet there is far more in experinced anglers in Alberta than experinced ones so ya barb less will save fish.

it's a useless law Well it is a law, there is lots of them in Alberta & useless or not if you break it you pay. don't see the problem here. Same as photo radar, you speed, your breaking the law, you pay, what not to understand about this.


to be honest the thing that rips me & I have seen it at Piegon as well as other lakes. is the nocice angler out fishing in their wake boat because it is to rought to ski. They catch a fish, show to thier buddies & then toss it back in the water from a standing postion.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:33 PM
C@RN@GE C@RN@GE is offline
 
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Those test are all done by professional anglers. There not taking into affect the amount of people that pull there fish up onto rocks and onto the grass then put there 1 foot on the fish while they yank with a pair of pliers. Then toss it back about 6 mins later with it mouth/gills totally destroyed. Does it really matter nope. Most of the people using barbed hooks still are inexperienced people that have no clue how to handle fish and more concerned about keeping there 8 cent hook instead of saving the fish. Iím sure the amount of people using barbed hooks is close to 50 percent. Thatís about the same amount of people that have no clue on how to handle fish. Maybe 10 percent get caught and maybe 2 percent actually get a ticket. Iím sure most of the guys complaining about them are the same guys i see chucking bait at trout lakes every year just after they stock it. Letting the 6 inch trout swallow the hook then reeling it in as fast as they can. Then they yank there 8 cent hook out of the gill. Then there go ahead and toss the trout bleeding out of the gills back into the water. You can usually spot these guys pretty easily there have piles of small dead trout around them.
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C@RN@GE View Post
Those test are all done by professional anglers. There not taking into affect the amount of people that pull there fish up onto rocks and onto the grass then put there 1 foot on the fish while they yank with a pair of pliers. Then toss it back about 6 mins later with it mouth/gills totally destroyed. Does it really matter nope. Most of the people using barbed hooks still are inexperienced people that have no clue how to handle fish and more concerned about keeping there 8 cent hook instead of saving the fish. Iím sure the amount of people using barbed hooks is close to 50 percent. Thatís about the same amount of people that have no clue on how to handle fish. Maybe 10 percent get caught and maybe 2 percent actually get a ticket. Iím sure most of the guys complaining about them are the same guys i see chucking bait at trout lakes every year just after they stock it. Letting the 6 inch trout swallow the hook then reeling it in as fast as they can. Then they yank there 8 cent hook out of the gill. Then there go ahead and toss the trout bleeding out of the gills back into the water. You can usually spot these guys pretty easily there have piles of small dead trout around them.

50% use barbed hooks???? I think your out to lunch on that little stat.

Usually Spot these guys??? hmmmm nope.

and lastly "8 cent hook" ???? Where are you shopping?
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:55 PM
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Ive said it before and I will say it again. There is no real evidence to support the barbless hook issue.

It is a fish handling issue.

Its actually "fun" watching an angler dig out a deeply imbedded hook from the back of a fishes throat. Then comment "its Ok im using barbless hooks".

Properly educated anglers would have little difficulty releasing fish caught using barbs.



Now for the real fish killer seeings as no body else will bring it up ---


Bait.


Now use of bait kills more fish....

Wait a minute I like to use bait so I wont go there.

I actually think this was just a feel good law.
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