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11-04-2011, 01:08 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.
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So one day you have a brain fart and get caught fishing with a barbed hook or the CO decided you didn't pinch that barb down far enough. You still happy with getting a ticket for an unnecessary law?
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11-04-2011, 01:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Why not? Barbed hooks do not increase mortality, especially in walleye.
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How do you remove a barbed hook besides ripping it out, or pinching the barb while it is inside the mouth.
Honestly you have to be ****ing joking me if you think ripping a barbed hook out of a walleye's mouth isn't going to harm it.
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11-04-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyguitar
How do you remove a barbed hook besides ripping it out, or pinching the barb while it is inside the mouth.
Honestly you have to be ****ing joking me if you think ripping a barbed hook out of a walleye's mouth isn't going to harm it.
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Not joking at all. I've never really had to rip a hook out of a walleye. Typically the hook creates a slightly larger hole during the fight and the hook slips easily out, barb and all. Hooks and their removal don't kill fish. Improper handling sure can though....regardless of the type of hook. That's why the studies show what they do.
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11-04-2011, 01:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
TJ???
I have caught more than my share of fish and thousands were caught on trebles. The size of the hole in the fishes lip has no bearing on mortality.
The Internet is full of studies at least one was linked to in this thread. Barbless doesn't save fish.
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Richard you and TJ are started to look alike ...lol...
You have your opinion and nothing will change that. I would agree with you a little more when it comes to pike and walleye but definately not Trout... Of course those who keep fish in live wells for tournaments also think they aren't killing fish either but we all know that studies prove that is does kill fish because of the stress.
We are not going back to barbed hooks period..
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11-04-2011, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLeod
Of course those who keep fish in live wells for tournaments also think they aren't killing fish either but we all know that studies prove that is does kill fish because of the stress.
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A pretty broad assumption there. I, think most tournament anglers are well versed on livewell mortality. It's likely no more than a normal day of C&R fishing providing tournaments are held during cool water periods. Heavy mortality from properly run and timed tournaments is another myth right up there alongside barbless hook mortality. I guess it's easy to believe though for those that have never looked at the research.
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11-04-2011, 02:10 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyguitar
How do you remove a barbed hook besides ripping it out, or pinching the barb while it is inside the mouth.
Honestly you have to be ****ing joking me if you think ripping a barbed hook out of a walleye's mouth isn't going to harm it.
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I think what hurts walleye more is catching and releasing 100's of them in 0 limit lakes and eventually stunting them. No surprise to me that biggest walleye are caught in lakes/rivers where you can keep them.
__________________
I intend to live forever. So far so good
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11-04-2011, 02:12 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
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I didn't say that. ? But maybe you think so.
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11-04-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
I didn't say that. ? But maybe you think so.
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No I oppose the barbless law.......you were the one that said it was okay even if it was unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.
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11-04-2011, 02:24 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
A pretty broad assumption there. I, think most tournament anglers are well versed on livewell mortality. It's likely no more than a normal day of C&R fishing providing tournaments are held during cool water periods. Heavy mortality from properly run and timed tournaments is another myth right up there alongside barbless hook mortality. I guess it's easy to believe though for those that have never looked at the research.
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No that is where you are way off.. Call Micheal Sullivan he can explain that one to you. Fish are dying 3 or 4 days later from the stress...
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11-04-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLeod
No that is where you are way off.. Call Micheal Sullivan he can explain that one to you. Fish are dying 3 or 4 days later from the stress...
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LOL...I helped with those studies. I understand delayed mortality very well. You should read the study....you'd learn a lot. There are some very good ones out of Saskatchewan and Minnesota too that pretty well all offer up the same results. Where do you think the current rules for the timing of tournaments come from in Alberta? Delayed mortality is very low if tournaments are timed right.....kinda like barbed hooks.
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11-04-2011, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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I oppose any unnecessary laws. If barbless can be demonstrated to be shuch - I oppose it big time.
Pinch them if it makes life easier or you just want to do so out of some irrational beliefs or whatever. I would where I have to release a lot of illegal fish
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11-04-2011, 02:43 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,268
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question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?
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11-04-2011, 02:44 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
So one day you have a brain fart and get caught fishing with a barbed hook or the CO decided you didn't pinch that barb down far enough. You still happy with getting a ticket for an unnecessary law?
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It is my responsibility to know the law and abide by the law, whether I agree with the law or not. If that were to happen, and I were to get caught, I would plead guilty and pay the fine without complaint.
A mistake is one thing. I don't intend to make mistakes, although I know I will, but I don't expect a pass when I do make one.
It has nothing to do with whether or not I'm happy with it. It is the law.
If I don't like a law, the thing to do is to lobby government to change that law, or to enter politics, (pattooee ) and try to change things to what I want.
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11-04-2011, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 933
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[QUOTE=sheephunter;1145903]LOL...I helped with those studies. I understand delayed mortality very well. You should read the study....you'd learn a lot. There are some very good ones out of Saskatchewan and Minnesota too that pretty well all offer up the same results. Where do you think the current rules for the timing of tournaments come from in Alberta? Delayed mortality is very low if tournaments are timed right.....kinda like barbed hooks.[/QUOTE
I know all about the changes but again there is still mortality.
I am beginning to believe your becoming a little skepticle in your older age.
You need to do the barbed experiment on some cutties at high elevation then you will get it..
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11-04-2011, 03:26 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
No I oppose the barbless law.......you were the one that said it was okay even if it was unnecessary.
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Where is it written that having no problem with a law is the same as liking that law ?
I don't have a problem getting out of bed in the morning but I don't like it.
LOL IS that too deep for you ?
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11-04-2011, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickrel pat
question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?
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I do not hate barbless hooks and did not see much of the rate drop after fishing all my life with barbs and going barbless after moving to Alberta, but I think it should be left as option and not forced as a law. If I want to catch fish and keep I would rather use barbed and wice versa if I am planning to release it.
__________________
I intend to live forever. So far so good
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11-04-2011, 03:54 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47
I do not hate barbless hooks and did not see much of the rate drop after fishing all my life with barbs and going barbless after moving to Alberta, but I think it should be left as option and not forced as a law. If I want to catch fish and keep I would rather use barbed and wice versa if I am planning to release it.
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I would agree with you, if there were no size limits. But if we have to release even one fish out of twenty, doesn't it make sense to make that release as easy as possible ?
Lets just say, for the sake of avoiding argument, that barbed or barbless makes little difference to survival. Wouldn't it still make sense to limit the time that particular fish was handled and thus limit the stress to the fish.
After all, the intent is to enjoy the sport, or feed ourselves, not to cause another creature discomfort, is it not ?
Like a lot of people I hated the idea of going barbless. But once I did, I found no reason to object any longer.
It's so simple to pinch the barbs, and I catch just as many fish as I did before,
Plus I I don't think loose no more now then I did with barbed hooks, besides I find it much easier to release a fish that is too small, and it costs me nothing.
What's to hate. I'm not saying I love the idea. Just I don't see what there is to complain about.
And if it means one more fish in 100 lives, why not ?
Surely no one would argue that going barbless results in more fish dying !
That's about the only reason I could see for fighting this law.
After all, we have much bigger problems, like poachers.
Now there's something to get up in arms about.
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11-04-2011, 03:59 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyguitar
How? I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has seen fish killed or injured with removal of a barbed hook. It's a no brainer. Got any links to these studies there?
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I highly doubt the barb killed the fish Very likely poor fish handling skills.
And sorry but I no longer have the links - computer crashed and they were lost.
Convenient eh. But they are out there. I will however repeat that there appears to be no significant difference between barbed and barbless when it comes to fish mortality. I believe that was even admitted by some of the Bios prior to it becoming law. So why have a law that has no real reason to exist?
Its just a feel good law to help us feel all warm and fuzzy.
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11-04-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLeod
[I know all about the changes but again there is still mortality.
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I don't think that was ever in dispute....just the percentage was.
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11-04-2011, 04:22 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,351
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In the past when using barbs. Just a guess and an estimate, but probably 80-90%(possibly more) of the fish I catch can be released without picking them up. Hooked in the lip, just a little twist with pliers or forceps and the fish was gone! Those that were hooked in the mouth were gently picked up and quickly unhooked then released and a small amount that were hooked severely line was cut immediatly or hook was snipped(if using cranks etc). Fish was released quickly. Fish that were hooked in touchy locations and bleeding out or gill hooked would likely not survive under any conditions and kept if legal to do so.
Anyone can achieve that with a little knowledge and care.
I have seen people digging out 20cent barbless hooks under the guise and reasoning that its easier to remove them- go figure.
Fish handling people, nothing more nothing less!
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11-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickrel pat
question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?
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Really it's got nothing to do with pinching the barb or not and everything to do with having yet another law imposed upon us that serves no purpose. I'm all for laws that serve a purpose but I can't see how anyone can't have a problem with an unneccessary law but apparently some don't. At some point we have to protect our personal freedoms. Anyone of us could be busted for this. It's easy not to pinch a barb down to a CO's satisfaction. You don't, you get caught and suddenly you are a poacher over a law that made no sense in the first place. That's why I have a problem with it.
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11-04-2011, 04:54 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Really it's got nothing to do with pinching the barb or not and everything to do with having yet another law imposed upon us that serves no purpose. I'm all for laws that serve a purpose but I can't see how anyone can't have a problem with an unneccessary law but apparently some don't. At some point we have to protect our personal freedoms. Anyone of us could be busted for this. It's easy not to pinch a barb down to a CO's satisfaction. You don't, you get caught and suddenly you are a poacher over a law that made no sense in the first place. That's why I have a problem with it.
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I can see why you would object to it, if you think that.
I don't see it that way.
For one thing, I give F&W more credit. At least around here they don't hand out tickets over trivial matters like a barb not pinched to their satisfaction.
At least around here they don't.
For another, so what if there isn't a lot of difference between the two mortality rate wise. Going barbless is so simple and easy, why fight it ?
Is it the possibility you might loose that big one ? That would be pretty shallow don't you agree.
I think we have far bigger battles to fight, like poaching and the perception, even among members of this site, that ethics mean nothing. So long as it's legal, they say, go for it.
Like the single fellow who shoots four or more big game animals in a year, just because he can legally do so.
Now that's something worth getting up in arms about.
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11-04-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
I can see why you would object to it, if you think that.
I don't see it that way.
For one thing, I give F&W more credit. At least around here they don't hand out tickets over trivial matters like a barb not pinched to their satisfaction.
At least around here they don't.
For another, so what if there isn't a lot of difference between the two mortality rate wise. Going barbless is so simple and easy, why fight it ?
Is it the possibility you might loose that big one ? That would be pretty shallow don't you agree.
I think we have far bigger battles to fight, like poaching and the perception, even among members of this site, that ethics mean nothing. So long as it's legal, they say, go for it.
Like the single fellow who shoots four or more big game animals in a year, just because he can legally do so.
Now that's something worth getting up in arms about.
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I guess you are right keg, we should be up in arms about hunters hunting legally and not about laws that infringe on our personal freedoms for no reason.....ya, that makes sense
I'll fight it because I still believe in personal freedoms keg. As for COs not handing out tickets, it's a big world out there with many personality types. Sounds like you have some good ones up there. Other places they can't wait to write you a ticket.
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11-04-2011, 05:07 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickrel pat
question...... why do you want barbed hooks? do you just hate pinching them? does your success rate drop? whats your hate for?
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I don't see that i lose any fish from barbless hooks. Harder on bait for sure. I'm against any stupid ineffective law like barbless hooks and the long gun registry.
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11-04-2011, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
I'll fight it because I still believe in personal freedoms keg.
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Let's twist this arguement up a bit eh?
So you are signing legalize marijuana law petitions then,
shoot man if I culitivate and consume my own pot there is no involvement with criminal elements and the MAN is infringing on my personal freedoms, man. I guess the anti-marijuana laws are just there to create jobs for Correction Officers then.
in no way do I cultivate marijuana, just wanted to add some fire to the flames
You can bieotch and moan and throw insults at those that don't follow your logic all you want on this forum and NOTHING will happen. Take your studies, write a proposal, get WU and TU to champion your cause and get this "useless, freedom infringing" law rescended or continue to beat this dead horse
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11-04-2011, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhad
Let's twist this arguement up a bit eh?
So you are signing legalize marijuana law petitions then,
shoot man if I culitivate and consume my own pot there is no involvement with criminal elements and the MAN is infringing on my personal freedoms, man. I guess the anti-marijuana laws are just there to create jobs for Correction Officers then.
in no way do I cultivate marijuana, just wanted to add some fire to the flames
You can bieotch and moan and throw insults at those that don't follow your logic all you want on this forum and NOTHING will happen. Take your studies, write a proposal, get WU and TU to champion your cause and get this "useless, freedom infringing" law rescended or continue to beat this dead horse
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You'd have an arguement if I did indeed believe that our current laws regarding the growing of pot serve no useful purpose but I believe they do so no, I don't sign petitions to legalize it. I was quite vocal about getting rid of the gun registry though. That I felt was a useless law that infringed on our personal freedoms
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11-04-2011, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AB
Posts: 6,661
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I hate barbless hooks because bait falls off them to easy,with leeches going for $5/dozen,looseing more bait,not from fish,has cost me extra $$$.
Im not sure if barbs are any worse on fish,maybe trout??
__________________
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11-04-2011, 05:28 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
I guess you are right keg, we should be up in arms about hunters hunting legally
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You twist my words, to win your argument. That's low class man, real low class.
What goes around come around.
Have a nice day.
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11-04-2011, 05:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: cowtown
Posts: 6,653
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Im not sure about any studies that are done on this matter. My opinion stands similar to C@R data, whats the long term effect or mortality numbers. Those numbers really cant be fact without human scientific involvment and that there alone taints the study of natural recovery.
But i have noticed on the water some basic differences.
Ive seen quite a few fisherman allow intentional slack when they get a fish near and with a couple shakes the fish releases itself. Many recreational anglers are simply scared to touch fish. The law has made them realize this technique that their limited ability never allowed them to realize on their own.
Ive also noticed fisherman dont grasp fish as hard to remove hooks...which makes sense, when compared to pulling out a arrow with a practice point or a broadhead.
I believe that alone, benifits the general public, does the law make sense to experienced fisherman with good fish handling skills...nah maybe not.
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11-04-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
You twist my words, to win your argument. That's low class man, real low class.
What goes around come around.
Have a nice day.
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LOL....I twisted nothing keg. You were using your personal ethics to judge legal hunters and saying it was a bigger battle to fight than a useless law the forces us to fish barbless. I disagree on so many levels.
Don't you remember saying:
Quote:
I think we have far bigger battles to fight, like poaching and the perception, even among members of this site, that ethics mean nothing. So long as it's legal, they say, go for it.
Like the single fellow who shoots four or more big game animals in a year, just because he can legally do so.
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