Best Skinning knife for $200

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by tirebob

If you are comparing brand new knives both, understand that it is totally possible for the cutting edge retention to improve after a few solid sharpenings. It all comes down to how the knife was heat treated and how much metal was removed after the initial heat treatment. Sometimes the edge needs to work back through to get to the toughest steel that was tempered perfectly while the outer most steel got a little harder kind of deal. It can end up being a bit chippy to start but goes away with a few extra sharpenings.

You tend to see this effect more on steels that are heat treated in a production environment rather than a boutique environment because they are generally mass heat treating groups of blanks rather than small volume. When you have lots of different blanks, maybe not all of them are exactly the same thicknesses and dimensions and those little variances will show later where as if you have more control when just doing a very small amount of blades.

My point being, do not be soured on a blade if initially it seems like it is not performing up to snuff. Give it a few good sharpenings before making that decision. I have had a few knives and plenty of woodworking handtools behave exactly as described over the years where initially it seemed like they were junk but the second I got through the outer most steel they became amazing working tools!

All but my new knife have multiple sharpenings as over the years i have experimented and tried different polish levels as well as bevel angles to maximize performance. My new knife has just been sharpened the one time so it may still improve yet.

[obsessed1]

For anyone who is intetested i have some results on some of my knives i am testing. I have two points of measurement to test edge retention. First is when it stops shaving hair second is when it stops easily slicing a thawed out roast. My medium was a rope cut on a wood cutting board. I attempted to push and slice using about 2" of each blade. My rope was 3/4" hemp type.
First knife was the sog w s30v
120 cuts before it ceased to shave and 180 before it started pulling on the meat rather than slicing.
Second was the KoA yukon in D2
This blade is much thicker behind the edge than the sog and did 160 cuts before not shaving and 256 cuts before it started to gum the meat rather than cut.

I still have the camilis and my custom to do yet but i noticed that the D2 only kept its shaving edge slightly longer than the s30v it kept slicing meat much longer.....
So far the edge goes to the KoA yukon in D2

For what its worth the grip on the sog was much less tiring on my hand than the Yukon however the blade to grip ergos was much better on the yukon as far as arm and wrist fatigue as the edge presentation was much more natural....

[Phil McCracken]

I recently restored a couple of beat up knives that were gifted to me years ago.



This one is an old Russell Belt Knife Canada. The blade was heavily tarnished, and the old handles were cracked and worn down. Took the old handles off, sanded and polished the blade. Replaced the handles with new walnut scales, with new brass pins.



This skinner was also in bad shape. Some rust on the blade. So the blade was sanded and polished. The handle used to be made of stacked leather rings. Most of them were curled up and worn. I have elk antlers in the shop, and shaped one for the handle.

Wished I would have taken "before" pictures...hindsight is 20/20...

[graybeard]

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

I recently restored a couple of beat up knives that were gifted to me years ago.



This one is an old Russell Belt Knife Canada. The blade was heavily tarnished, and the old handles were cracked and worn down. Took the old handles off, sanded and polished the blade. Replaced the handles with new walnut scales, with new brass pins.



This skinner was also in bad shape. Some rust on the blade. So the blade was sanded and polished. The handle used to be made of stacked leather rings. Most of them were curled up and worn. I have elk antlers in the shop, and shaped one for the handle.

Wished I would have taken "before" pictures...hindsight is 20/20...

Very nice. What sandpaper did you use and the polishing compound in the buffing?
Thanks

[Dean2]

Those two turned out real nice Phil. Always a good thing when you can give a great old knife another life of useful work. Someone will really enjoy those two.

[Phil McCracken]

Hey Graybeard.

Depending how bad the blade actually is, I will usually start with 120X, then 220X, 320X, and finish with a 400X.

Then I use different 8" buffing wheels. First I will use the black "Combat" compound. This will get rid of the 400X scratches. Then I go to the green "Combat" compound, and this will give it a very nice polish.

Some will go to a 3rd step, being the purple "Combat" compound. This will give the blade a mirror finish. I personally don't use that step, as I find the blade looks quite fine after the green buffing.

Hope that helped...

[senderomag]

A dozier is in my possession now. But I like sns2 crotts knife better. Man is this kydex sheath tight. Got to be mindfull pulling it out

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by senderomag

A dozier is in my possession now. But I like sns2 crotts knife better. Man is this kydex sheath tight. Got to be mindfull pulling it out

There is a trick to getting them out easily. Coiloil posted it on this thread. If I remember right it is push down or up prior to trying to remove. Don't just try to pull straight out. Apparently he cut himself quite badly trying the straight out pull.

[Frank_NK28]

I have a buddy I've hung out with since high school who makes top quality knives. You will get yourself a high end knife at 1/3 the price!! He was trained by R.W Wilson of Virginia, a very well known accomplished knifemaker in the U.S. Here is a pic of one style of skinning knife he makes. These are not lightweights. They are heavy and they hold an edge unlike anything I have ever used. A good friend of mine who passed away a few years ago bought one for skinning beaver. He had a big trap line with a large quota. He had so much water he would have his quota of 110+ beaver in the first few days of the season before the first ice was on. He tried one of these knives and bought a second immediately. He said he never owned a knife that could do 55 beaver without needing sharpening so he bought a second and did all 110 each year on the two knives then sharpened them for the next season. You won't find a better quality knife for $150-$175 and it comes with a fantastic quality heavy leather fitted sheath. PM me if you want his contact info or check out his page, Wynn Stitt Knives on FB.

[Athabasca1]

Originally Posted by Dean2

There is a trick to getting them out easily. Coiloil posted it on this thread. If I remember right it is push down or up prior to trying to remove. Don't just try to pull straight out. Apparently he cut himself quite badly trying the straight out pull.

.

Push down on the sheath with your thumb as you lift up on the handle with your fingers and pull the knife out of the sheath. Tried it on both of my Dozier knives and it works great.

My only concern on the Dozier knife sheaths is they are made for right handed people that carry the knife on their right hip.

For a left handed person like myself that prefers to have the knife on my left hip the only option would be to drill out the rivets that hold the belt loop to the sheath body and replace the rivets with Chicago screws when attaching the belt loop on the opposite side of the sheath body. Considering doing that.

[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by senderomag

A dozier is in my possession now. But I like sns2 crotts knife better. Man is this kydex sheath tight. Got to be mindfull pulling it out

A possible fix for this issue:

Take knife out of the sheath. Take a Bic lighter (or heat gun) and gently heat the area where the thumb would be. As the Kydex softens, push the top outwards, until it sticks out a bit. Play with it until your thumb sits in there comfortably. Let it cool/harden.

Put in and pull out your knife a few times. If further adjusting is required, do it again. Will not affect the integrity of the Kydex.

Any other areas of the sheath can be "adjusted" using this method.

That should work for you, or anyone else that has this issue...

[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by Athabasca1

.

Push down on the sheath with your thumb as you lift up on the handle with your fingers and pull the knife out of the sheath. Tried it on both of my Dozier knives and it works great.

My only concern on the Dozier knife sheaths is they are made for right handed people that carry the knife on their right hip.

For a left handed person like myself that prefers to have the knife on my left hip the only option would be to drill out the rivets that hold the belt loop to the sheath body and replace the rivets with Chicago screws when attaching the belt loop on the opposite side of the sheath body. Considering doing that.

This may solve your issue.

Presently gearing up for making Kydex sheaths, and I already made the molding block out of scrap oak wood.

Hope I attached the link correctly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKC7G37rVvA&t=78s

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

I recently restored a couple of beat up knives that were gifted to me years ago.



This one is an old Russell Belt Knife Canada. The blade was heavily tarnished, and the old handles were cracked and worn down. Took the old handles off, sanded and polished the blade. Replaced the handles with new walnut scales, with new brass pins.



This skinner was also in bad shape. Some rust on the blade. So the blade was sanded and polished. The handle used to be made of stacked leather rings. Most of them were curled up and worn. I have elk antlers in the shop, and shaped one for the handle.

Wished I would have taken "before" pictures...hindsight is 20/20...

Phil, that turned out really nice. Great job.

[senderomag]

Thanks gentlemen for the advice

[sns2]

The knives that Pathfinder and I had built just cleared customs after sitting in Chicago for a week. Excited like a kid.

[house21]

Took me a little but finally finished! Not bad for my first ever knife I don’t think. Now to wait and see how it performs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[badbrass]

Looks Great! What it made of?

Originally Posted by house21

Took me a little but finally finished! Not bad for my first ever knife I don’t think. Now to wait and see how it performs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[house21]

Originally Posted by badbrass

Looks Great! What it made of?

Its AEB-L with G10 handles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sns2]

House 21, that is very cool. Super cool. I have great admiration for talented people who are making their own tools. Craftsmen.

[house21]

Originally Posted by sns2

House 21, that is very cool. Super cool. I have great admiration for talented people who are making their own tools. Craftsmen.

Thanks, still quite a bit of practice need to get it where I want it, but I’m excited to put it to use. Just something about using something you made that has a certain amount of gratification to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

For anyone who is intetested i have some results on some of my knives i am testing. I have two points of measurement to test edge retention. First is when it stops shaving hair second is when it stops easily slicing a thawed out roast. My medium was a rope cut on a wood cutting board. I attempted to push and slice using about 2" of each blade. My rope was 3/4" hemp type.
First knife was the sog w s30v
120 cuts before it ceased to shave and 180 before it started pulling on the meat rather than slicing.
Second was the KoA yukon in D2
This blade is much thicker behind the edge than the sog and did 160 cuts before not shaving and 256 cuts before it started to gum the meat rather than cut.

I still have the camilis and my custom to do yet but i noticed that the D2 only kept its shaving edge slightly longer than the s30v it kept slicing meat much longer.....
So far the edge goes to the KoA yukon in D2

For what its worth the grip on the sog was much less tiring on my hand than the Yukon however the blade to grip ergos was much better on the yukon as far as arm and wrist fatigue as the edge presentation was much more natural....

WE HAVE A WINNER

The camilis managed 179 cuts before it ceased to shave and 276 before it stopped cleanly slicing meat. It had by far the worst grip for my hands resulted in major pain and stress on my hands, wrists and forearms

My Chisan knife cut 212 times before it stopped shaving my arm and after 300+cuts on the rope it was still slicing meat.....I ran out of rope lol. Its super thin grind really helped it as a slicer and id say its got a really good heat treat as it beat all the others by a significant margin. As expected the ergos and grip were not even comparable with the competition.


While the D2 blades will certainly handle multiple deer before needing a touch up the s30v will need to be tended to much sooner ( this has been my in field experience as well) the magnacut according to my test will far out perform both of the factory D2 knives

[sns2]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

WE HAVE A WINNER

The camilis managed 179 cuts before it ceased to shave and 276 before it stopped cleanly slicing meat. It had by far the worst grip for my hands resulted in major pain and stress on my hands, wrists and forearms

My Chisan knife cut 212 times before it stopped shaving my arm and after 300+cuts on the rope it was still slicing meat.....I ran out of rope lol. Its super thin grind really helped it as a slicer and id say its got a really good heat treat as it beat all the others by a significant margin. As expected the ergos and grip were not even comparable with the competition.


While the D2 blades will certainly handle multiple deer before needing a touch up the s30v will need to be tended to much sooner ( this has been my in field experience as well) the magnacut according to my test will far out perform both of the factory D2 knives

Excellent. Now run the edges across the stone to dull them and tell us which ones were easiest to put an edge back on. Then your review will really be complete

I must say, I am happy to hear about your Chisan knife in mag a cut. Not only is it gorgeous, it sounds like it’s a helluva performer! Really happy for you.

I would like nothing more than for him to gain an even bigger following in Canada, and even the Northern US. My hesitation in ordering from him was twofold: 1) I had simply not heard enough real reviews of how his knives hold their edge and 2) I just wanted to have a Crotts knife after hearing all that Coiloil had to say about them. If I didn’t order one, I would always be second guessing.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by sns2

Excellent. Now run the edges across the stone to dull them and tell us which ones were easiest to put an edge back on. Then your review will really be complete

I must say, I am happy to hear about your Chisan knife in mag a cut. Not only is it gorgeous, it sounds like it’s a helluva performer! Really happy for you.

I would like nothing more than for him to gain an even bigger following in Canada, and even the Northern US. My hesitation in ordering from him was twofold: 1) I had simply not heard enough real reviews of how his knives hold their edge and 2) I just wanted to have a Crotts knife after hearing all that Coiloil had to say about them. If I didn’t order one, I would always be second guessing.

You made the right call...gotta scratch the otch thats there.. and yes in my mind it was a bit of a gamble as crotts are WELL known for the d2 heat treat and legendary edge retention. Im happy I took the gamble as he was able to deliver on the unusual grip i requested.. im actually hopful for other guys to try my knife on game to see if the grip design is better than typical off the shelf designs.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

WE HAVE A WINNER

The camilis managed 179 cuts before it ceased to shave and 276 before it stopped cleanly slicing meat. It had by far the worst grip for my hands resulted in major pain and stress on my hands, wrists and forearms

My Chisan knife cut 212 times before it stopped shaving my arm and after 300+cuts on the rope it was still slicing meat.....I ran out of rope lol. Its super thin grind really helped it as a slicer and id say its got a really good heat treat as it beat all the others by a significant margin. As expected the ergos and grip were not even comparable with the competition.


While the D2 blades will certainly handle multiple deer before needing a touch up the s30v will need to be tended to much sooner ( this has been my in field experience as well) the magnacut according to my test will far out perform both of the factory D2 knives

All this said, can I ask what angles you were sharpening at for the test? One thing I will point out is that changing sharpening angles will affect wear, so if you have a knife that is dulling a little faster than you prefer, you can try and use a bit of a higher degree and see how it does. Having softer and harder steels can really be helped this way.

There are lots of factors in play that will alter not only sharpness but durability of edge. Even the shape of the cutting edge such as a hollow grind versus a strait grind versus a convex grind. Lots to play with!

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by tirebob

All this said, can I ask what angles you were sharpening at for the test? One thing I will point out is that changing sharpening angles will affect wear, so if you have a knife that is dulling a little faster than you prefer, you can try and use a bit of a higher degree and see how it does. Having softer and harder steels can really be helped this way.

There are lots of factors in play that will alter not only sharpness but durability of edge. Even the shape of the cutting edge such as a hollow grind versus a strait grind versus a convex grind. Lots to play with!

I chose 20deg for all. The s30v is a very thin flat grind. The yukon is a fairly thick grind and i sharpen it using a 17deg with a micro 20deg.
The camilis is a thick mid hollow grind
And the chisan is a high hollow ( very thin)
You are right there are tones of variables that were not tested in this test but using the same angle same grits this gives a good side by side...could the s30v at 22deg out perform the magnacut at 15 deg?? Maybe but sharpened the same way at the same angle there is no comparison in what holds a better edge. I'm anxious to test it on animals this season.

[Pathfinder76]

Do you have a photo that shows how thin that Chisan grind is?

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Do you have a photo that shows how thin that Chisan grind is?

Heres 4 measurements taken with calipers

How does that compare to a crotts?

[Pathfinder76]

Pretty close.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Pretty close.

Yup depending on the exact placement I'd say thats darn close.

[fishnguy]

Wow. Gotta catch up on this thread… Looks like quite a few pages since I last looked.

Originally Posted by senderomag

A dozier is in my possession now. But I like sns2 crotts knife better. Man is this kydex sheath tight. Got to be mindfull pulling it out

The way it works with (well-made) kydex sheaths is that you don’t pull the knife out but rather push it out with your thumb while holding on to the knife handle. They all (the well-made ones) have this spot to do so. Something like this:



So you hold on to the handle tight and push the knife out with your thumb. It works kind of like a spring that helps to keep the knife nice and tight/secure in the sheath.

Secure in sheath:



When pushing out:



After the knife is out:



It works especially well with the knife sheaths for “horizontal” wear/carry. Pulling it straight out is just asking for trouble. Can probably damage the knife, on top of hurting yourself and, in some cases, ripping your belt holes off your pants before you pull the knife out. It is quite neat once you get used to it. And, indeed, very secure. “Tampering” with the sheaths will do you no good, imo, because it will make your knife less secure in your sheath. They are all made for each individual knife, such as one yukon skinner dozier will not sit well (or at all) in another yukon skinner’s sheath, for example. In other words, it is made tight for that particular knife to seat tightly/securely in it; so that it stays tight in it in “all” conditions and you do not come back home with an empty sheath if you are actually carrying it on your belt, backpack, or whatever.

There is no universal kydex sheath for custom knives as there are for mass production knives because all custom knives are different. This is also the reason most production knife kydex sheaths suck big time and many (most?) people hate them.

And yes, they come for right-handed and left-handed individuals, obviously. Unfortunately for the left-handed folks out there, they have to come up with solutions that are less than ideal than when you are ordering straight from the maker.