Wild horses?

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

I don't think so, Grizz. This is a quote from the following article I read:

"As part of its outreach to businesses and other donors, the Seed maintains an open-door policy and actively encourages visitors to check out its operations, including the Mountain Aire Lodge, which is being run by Jason Nixon and his wife, Tiffany."

http://www.albertaventure.com/manage...philanthropia/

Talked to a friend of mine and it sounds like you're right. He'd be the perfect fit. Lives in the area and wouldn't attract attention. I was out there a week ago and there was a dead colt lying at the side of the road, just below the old ranger station. Scavengers had been there for a while, but I figured it as a road kill. Maybe I was wrong.

It's important to note that these guys have been tied to only one of the horse killing, at this time.

Grizz

[Blackwolf]

This is not going to be popular....

I have lived in that area, and I think I shared the same church as Jason Nixon, I know Jason Bradley and I worshiped together. Yes Jason Bradley is a stand up guy, no doubt. I do not recall Mr. Nixon, but anyone who would take on the mustard seed program has my kudo's.

The RCMP Gestapo, in that area is not as clean as the driven snow. I personnally have absolutley no room for this detatchment. This I know from personal experience.

We do not know any of the alleged facts, we do not have a copy of the disclosure, so why are we trying these guys and finding them guilty where in this great country,

WE ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

[honda450]

Anybody know if there are still feral horses at Suffield? Know they rounded them up a few years back but did they leave any?

[220swifty]

The radio clip i heard on CHED yesterday had the newscaster saying wild, but the RCMP (Patrick Webb) saying feral. I wish someone would help the media differentiate. There is a difference.

Why is the RCMP dealing with a f&w issue anyways (they are wild horses, not livestock, remember)

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

The radio clip i heard on CHED yesterday had the newscaster saying wild, but the RCMP (Patrick Webb) saying feral. I wish someone would help the media differentiate. There is a difference.

Why is the RCMP dealing with a f&w issue anyways (they are wild horses, not livestock, remember)

I was told by an F+W officer once that wild horse issues arent delt with by F+W because they dont class them as a wild animal. They dont want to have the responsibility of controling or taking care of them. Just what one guy said, may not be 100% the case.

[honda450]

My opinion is that any horse living wild in Alberta is feral. Don't think they were ever native here. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Whiskey Wish]

There is no such thing as WILD horses in Alberta. They are FERAL horses and are just as much foreign to the landscape as wild hogs, english sparrows and starlings. Every mouthful they eat steals a mouthful of feed from our NATIVE species, be they elk, deer, red polls or robins.
The only reason horses garner more sympathy is because of touchy, feely old western movies that romanticize the notion of horses living "wild and free". We, as a society, simply have to decide at what price do we wish to see feral horses running free??? At the potential cost of our native species? Perhaps lost due to lack of feed, winter competition or introduced disease. When the white man first came west he did a very good job of introducing disease to one native species, namely First Nations people, and very nearly wiped them completely out. Politics of the day aside, should we value an introduced species that exists very well in captivity and around the world over our native species that could very well be lost forever at the whim of man and mother nature?
Defending feral horses by saying look at Forestry or Oil and Gas is comparative to defending Rapists by saying look at Murders and Child Molesters imho.
Our knowledge base has grown exponentially over the last hundred years and we no longer accept or perpetuate actions that were once accepted and ackowledged as correct courses of action. ie killing the bison to control the First Nations people or introducing species from "back home" because we miss them such as starlings. We need to accept that feral horses should not be allowed to roam free in our province endangering our native species imho. To be clear, I am not advocating wholesale slaughter but a gradual steady removal from the wild of all equines in the province of Alberta. I say this as a lifelong horse owner that believes wholeheartedly that horses are livestock NOT wildlife. The days of needing to turn horses out to graze for the winter are long gone behind us and it baffles me that the same bleeding hearts that defend "wild ponies" can condone turning horses out into the foothills to survive on their own for the winter.
I say all this while at the same time feeling the romance of bygone years where chasing the wildies was a time honoured tradition. Sometimes one has to put feelings aside and look at the cold hard facts much the same as knowing you have to shoot your favorite saddle horse because you are 20 miles into the mountains and the tumble he took has broken his leg. It ain't nice but it's GOT to be done.
In closing I'll quote Baxter Black for the old timers on here:

Runnin’ Wild Horses

The chase, the chase, the race is on
The mustangs in the lead
The cowboys hot behind the band
Like centaurs, blurred with speed.

The horses’ necks are wringin’ wet
From keepin’ up the pace
And tears cut tracks into the dust
Upon the riders face.

The rank ol’ mare sniffs out the trail
While never breakin’ stride
But fast behind the wranglers come
Relentless, on they ride.

Until the canyon walls close in
And punch ‘em through the gap
Where bottled up, they paw and watch
The cowboy shut the trap.

And that’s the way it’s been out west
Since Cortez turned ‘em loose
We thinned the dinks and with the herd
We kept an easy truce.

But someone said they’d all die off
If cowboys had their way
So they outlawed runnin’ horses
But, who am I to say.

‘Cause, hell, I’m getting’ older, boys
And though I miss the chase
His time, like mine, has come and gone
We’re both so out of place.

The glamour of our way of life
Belies our common fate
I’m livin’ off my pension check
And he’s a ward of state.

But what a time, When he and I
Ran hard across this land
Me breathin’ heavy down his neck
Him wearin’ no mans brand.

No papers gave us ownership
To all the ground we trod
But it belonged to me and him
As sure as there’s a God.

And if I could, I’d wish for him
And for myself, likewise
To finally cross the Great Divide
Away from pryin’ eyes.

So in the end he has a chance
To die with dignity
His carcass laid to rest out there
Where livin’, he ran free.

And coyotes chew his moldered bones
A fitting epilogue
Instead of smashed up in a can
For someone’s townhouse dog.


By Baxter Black.

[Tracker34]

Originally Posted by honda450

My opinion is that any horse living wild in Alberta is feral. Don't think they were ever native here. Correct me if I am wrong.

As far as I know, horses were brought to America by the Sanish, in the
1600's.

[sheepguide]

OK heres one for you anti horse guys... what about the thousands of DOMESTIC cattle that are grazzed on these same lands every year? They do way more harm than the horses but your not banning them or not eating beef!

The horse numbers should be monitored but not eliminated. They have been out there eating with the elk and wild life for way longer than any member of the forum has been around, so wild or not they are more albertan than any guy here!!!

[fatrack]

Longer than the Natives?

[WhiteyChaser]

I dont have much experience with alberta feral horses, but i know in bc the things are stunted so they are no use to anyone, they are inbred so they are dumber than bricks, and they all carry all kinds of disease. we have lots of issues with them up north as the studs would steal our brood mares and breed em so we get these half wild useless horses. they way i look at it is they arn't native here so get rid of em. and you had best not be on foot when you run into a stud and his mares, or else you better be packin, them things are crazy

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by fatrack

Longer than the Natives?

Read the post.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by WhiteyChaser

I dont have much experience with alberta feral horses, but i know in bc the things are stunted so they are no use to anyone, they are inbred so they are dumber than bricks, and they all carry all kinds of disease. we have lots of issues with them up north as the studs would steal our brood mares and breed em so we get these half wild useless horses. they way i look at it is they arn't native here so get rid of em. and you had best not be on foot when you run into a stud and his mares, or else you better be packin, them things are crazy

Some of the best looking horses going live out there!

IMG_0094.jpg

IMG_0096.jpg

IMG_0098.jpg

IMG_0111.jpg

Threw in this old horse trap that was built 50 or 60 years ago when numbers were kept in check a little more. It still sits there today.

IMG_0133.jpg

[sheepguide]

Oh and did you notice how bad the forage is wiped out!!

[buckbrushoutdoors]

dang horses eatin my elks wintering areas!

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Wish

There is no such thing as WILD horses in Alberta. They are FERAL horses and are just as much foreign to the landscape as wild hogs, english sparrows and starlings. Every mouthful they eat steals a mouthful of feed from our NATIVE species, be they elk, deer, red polls or robins.
The only reason horses garner more sympathy is because of touchy, feely old western movies that romanticize the notion of horses living "wild and free". We, as a society, simply have to decide at what price do we wish to see feral horses running free??? At the potential cost of our native species? Perhaps lost due to lack of feed, winter competition or introduced disease. When the white man first came west he did a very good job of introducing disease to one native species, namely First Nations people, and very nearly wiped them completely out. Politics of the day aside, should we value an introduced species that exists very well in captivity and around the world over our native species that could very well be lost forever at the whim of man and mother nature?
Defending feral horses by saying look at Forestry or Oil and Gas is comparative to defending Rapists by saying look at Murders and Child Molesters imho.
Our knowledge base has grown exponentially over the last hundred years and we no longer accept or perpetuate actions that were once accepted and ackowledged as correct courses of action. ie killing the bison to control the First Nations people or introducing species from "back home" because we miss them such as starlings. We need to accept that feral horses should not be allowed to roam free in our province endangering our native species imho. To be clear, I am not advocating wholesale slaughter but a gradual steady removal from the wild of all equines in the province of Alberta. I say this as a lifelong horse owner that believes wholeheartedly that horses are livestock NOT wildlife. The days of needing to turn horses out to graze for the winter are long gone behind us and it baffles me that the same bleeding hearts that defend "wild ponies" can condone turning horses out into the foothills to survive on their own for the winter.
I say all this while at the same time feeling the romance of bygone years where chasing the wildies was a time honoured tradition. Sometimes one has to put feelings aside and look at the cold hard facts much the same as knowing you have to shoot your favorite saddle horse because you are 20 miles into the mountains and the tumble he took has broken his leg. It ain't nice but it's GOT to be done.
In closing I'll quote Baxter Black for the old timers on here:

Runnin’ Wild Horses

The chase, the chase, the race is on
The mustangs in the lead
The cowboys hot behind the band
Like centaurs, blurred with speed.

The horses’ necks are wringin’ wet
From keepin’ up the pace
And tears cut tracks into the dust
Upon the riders face.

The rank ol’ mare sniffs out the trail
While never breakin’ stride
But fast behind the wranglers come
Relentless, on they ride.

Until the canyon walls close in
And punch ‘em through the gap
Where bottled up, they paw and watch
The cowboy shut the trap.

And that’s the way it’s been out west
Since Cortez turned ‘em loose
We thinned the dinks and with the herd
We kept an easy truce.

But someone said they’d all die off
If cowboys had their way
So they outlawed runnin’ horses
But, who am I to say.

‘Cause, hell, I’m getting’ older, boys
And though I miss the chase
His time, like mine, has come and gone
We’re both so out of place.

The glamour of our way of life
Belies our common fate
I’m livin’ off my pension check
And he’s a ward of state.

But what a time, When he and I
Ran hard across this land
Me breathin’ heavy down his neck
Him wearin’ no mans brand.

No papers gave us ownership
To all the ground we trod
But it belonged to me and him
As sure as there’s a God.

And if I could, I’d wish for him
And for myself, likewise
To finally cross the Great Divide
Away from pryin’ eyes.

So in the end he has a chance
To die with dignity
His carcass laid to rest out there
Where livin’, he ran free.

And coyotes chew his moldered bones
A fitting epilogue
Instead of smashed up in a can
For someone’s townhouse dog.


By Baxter Black.

Very good read! I completeley agree the horses are feral and should be removed from the wild.

[bossmann]

Ok maybe someone can clear a couple things up for me... if you can shoot feral pigs, can you shoot feral horses? And if it is not legal what would you be charged with if you did kill one?
Obviously this is not in the regs.. or is it?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors

dang horses eatin my elks wintering areas!

So just curious where YOUR elk winter?

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Threw in this old horse trap that was built 50 or 60 years ago when numbers were kept in check a little more. It still sits there today.

Attachment 18261

I wouldnt doubt it if this was still used in the winters today. I know of several active traps and several old ones that guys still use each winter.

Its great that there are guys out there trapping them and keepin their numbers in control. Some good horses come out of the string, and although most just make it to the slaughter house its a good way to control some of the numbers.

While I dont think that ALL the horses should/need to be eliminated, they definatly need to be managed. Trapping works well but theres not much money in it these days.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

I wouldnt doubt it if this was still used in the winters today. I know of several active traps and several old ones that guys still use each winter.

Its great that there are guys out there trapping them and keepin their numbers in control. Some good horses come out of the string, and although most just make it to the slaughter house its a good way to control some of the numbers.

While I dont think that ALL the horses should/need to be eliminated, they definatly need to be managed. Trapping works well but theres not much money in it these days.

Your right rackmaster some guys still do trap but its a dieing art. This trap hasnt been used in alot of years. Its about 200 yards from where the horse pics were taken.
Alot of old traps have been burned or cut down in the last few years. At least the ones forestry knows about.
Not to many cowboys out there anymore that can handle them wild horses. I have a couple friends that still run horses but you dont get many guys that will put in the time with horse prices the way they are.
I have a yearling wildy in my corral right now and he is a great horse. Amazing how fast they quiet down when you work a little with them.

[Curly Bill]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Some of the best looking horses going live out there!

Attachment 18257

Attachment 18258

Attachment 18259

Attachment 18260

Threw in this old horse trap that was built 50 or 60 years ago when numbers were kept in check a little more. It still sits there today.

Attachment 18261

You got that right stud.

[sheepguide]

Wife heard on the radio that both adults were from mountain air

[honda450]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

OK heres one for you anti horse guys... what about the thousands of DOMESTIC cattle that are grazzed on these same lands every year? They do way more harm than the horses but your not banning them or not eating beef!

I agree with that. I ain't anti horse nor anti cattle. But the damage cattle do to river and stream banks are way worse than any quad as well.

[gpowter]

Interesting thoughts here. I'm a writer working on a piece about the Sundre/West Country horses, and I'd love to talk to you for the story. I've heard lots from the horse lovers, but would like to have more balance. Could you email me here, or call me 403-678-2881/cell 403-679-8487

Thanks,

Geoff Powter

[fatrack]

According to the Government of Alberta any of you guys that hunt and kill pigs need to turn yourselves in for breaking the law. Apparently pigs are protected by the same legislation that protects horses.


The following is from the SRD FAQ About Feral Horses:


Is it legal to hunt wild horses?

No, shooting or hunting horses is illegal according to section 444 of the Criminal Code. Specifically, this section says:
"Every one who wilfully
(a) kills, maims, wounds, poisons or injures cattle, or
(b) places poison in such a position that it may easily be consumed by cattle, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.”
In the Criminal Code, "cattle" is defined as "neat cattle or an animal of the bovine species by whatever technical or familiar name it is known, and includes any horse, mule, ass, pig, sheep or goat."


This is from the FAQ link at the bottom of the page.
http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...InAlberta.aspx

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

WE ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

X2

Originally Posted by Whiskey Wish

[LEFT]There is no such thing as WILD horses in Alberta.

Didn't copy the entire post because it was so long. But well worded, and agree with you sir.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

OK heres one for you anti horse guys... what about the thousands of DOMESTIC cattle that are grazzed on these same lands every year? They do way more harm than the horses but your not banning them or not eating beef!

The horse numbers should be monitored but not eliminated. They have been out there eating with the elk and wild life for way longer than any member of the forum has been around, so wild or not they are more albertan than any guy here!!!

Wow... for once I think I have to sort of agree with sheepguide here. Will try not to let THAT happen too much!

Originally Posted by gpowter

Interesting thoughts here. I'm a writer working on a piece about the Sundre/West Country horses, and I'd love to talk to you for the story. I've heard lots from the horse lovers, but would like to have more balance. Could you email me here, or call me 403-678-2881/cell 403-679-8487

Thanks,

Geoff Powter

Here's my thoughts sir:

This wild horse thing has kind of been talked to death with not much headway. Here is some more information for you for historical reference.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=32671

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=23864

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=23890

The two biggest issues I have with this is how the media takes Bob and Doreen Henderson's (Wild Horse Society)views as gospel. And how poachers are often referred to as hunters.

I've talked to media and the Henderson's regarding this previously, and doesn't look like there is any change any time soon. I respect their views, but don't agree with all of them. I do agree with a number of their values however and support that. I've had a few civil discussions with the Henderson's in the past which were mildly productive.

With respect to these feral horses, don't misinterpret this meaning that I'm a horse hater. I don't think that they should all be put down. I think they do need attention though.

I have only seen them in 'the wild' very briefly, and I wasn't sure if they were being free ranged or if they were the ferals. However with the current status of them being protected, and the government's refusal to address the issue (Because these horses are so romanticised by the Henderson's, media, and others) I believe it is now becoming a problem and people are taking action themselves.

It could be something as sick as a couple of wacko's out there enjoying seeing animals die, but I'm not 100% sure.

The people charged should face punishment if convicted. They broke the law as it stands currently and have no right or responsibility to do these things.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Very good read! I completeley agree the horses are feral and should be removed from the wild.

Just out of curiosity how would you differ between red deer in the wilds of New Zealand and horses in the wilds or Alberta?

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Just out of curiosity how would you differ between red deer in the wilds of New Zealand and horses in the wilds or Alberta?

Hey Duffy, we made it to page 2 of this thread without any big fighting so far... take this to PM's if you have such an issue with it, or back on your NZ thread.

[Rafter]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Hey Rafter, understood 100%. I like to see any animals in the bush as well. The sore point with me is the feral vs. Wild.

As I said, I don't spend enough time in this specific area to say one way or another if they are causing irreperable damage.

Albertadiver,

Thanks for the reply.

Rafter

[LongDraw]

Is trapping these feral horses a legal activity?