Semi-auto Accuacy

[260 Rem]

A pic of three consecutive groups shot off bags @ 50M with my .22 LR VQ Standard this morning using SK Standard Plus. Scope is SF Bushnell 4200 4 - 16 X 40mm. Each group moved over 1 click to the right. Pretty decent for a semi-auto I think.

[duffy4]

WOW! those are great 10 shot groups man.

[eastcoast]

no gun is inherently more or less accurate than another no matter what action it has, they all have twist barrels and shoot the same bullet.some guys prefer bolts,levers,pump,semi's but it has nothing to do with accuracy.

[elkhunter11]

no gun is inherently more or less accurate than another no matter what action it has, they all have twist barrels and shoot the same bullet.some guys prefer bolts,levers,pump,semi's but it has nothing to do with accuracy.

So how many benchrest tournaments are won with semi auto,lever action, or pump action firearms? You can build an accurate gun on several different actions, but when it comes to the disciplines that require the absolute highest degree of accuracy, pumps, levers, and semi autos are seldom chosen by top level competitors.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

no gun is inherently more or less accurate than another no matter what action it has, they all have twist barrels and shoot the same bullet.some guys prefer bolts,levers,pump,semi's but it has nothing to do with accuracy.

I am not sure I would agree with you on this one....yes each gun has "fundamental" parts that make it a gun but there are some things that make certain actions more accurate than others.

LC

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So how many benchrest tournaments are won with semi auto,lever action, or pump action firearms? You can build an accurate gun on several different actions, but when it comes to the disciplines that require the absolute highest degree of accuracy, pumps, levers, and semi autos are seldom chosen by top level competitors.

bolts are chosen because of their simplicity, once the round goes in the barrel with the firing pin behind it and a twist in front of it does it matter how it reloads?

[elkhunter11]

bolts are chosen because of their simplicity, once the round goes in the barrel with the firing pin behind it and a twist in front of it does it matter how it reloads?

It matters how rigid and precise the action locks up.

[sikwhiskey]

Nice groups, gophers must run and hide when they see you comming! I'm working on a 10/22, If get anywhere close to that I'd be very happy.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

no gun is inherently more or less accurate than another no matter what action it has, they all have twist barrels and shoot the same bullet.some guys prefer bolts,levers,pump,semi's but it has nothing to do with accuracy.

Thats good to know, thanks to you I'm gonna take a lever gun to the Supershoot and a pump gun to the Nationals next year and kick their butts. What caliber should I get it in or does it matter?

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It matters how rigid and precise the action locks up.

true.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Thats good to know, thanks to you I'm gonna take a lever gun to the Supershoot and a pump gun to the Nationals next year and kick their butts. What caliber should I get it in or does it matter?

what you are saying is lever guns and pump actions are not accurate? news to the guys who shoot both I guess, if you pay enough money to have a gun specialy made to be super accurate then it will be no matter what kind it will be, the us army now has semi auto sniper rifles I guess they don't know what they are doing?.

[elkhunter11]

the us army now has semi auto sniper rifles I guess they don't know what they are doing?.

How do you suppose those semi auto sniper rifles would do at a top level benchrest event?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Please I would love for someone to post up 1/2 MOA targets that came from a lever action or a pump action rifle. I only know of a handful of lever/pumps rifles that will acheive this. Not saying it isn't possible just saying that a single shot bolt action rifle has more going for it in the accuracy dept, and I think most would agree.

LC

[elkhunter11]

The groups that the OP posted from his VQ are very nice groups, they are much better than can be expected with most semi autos. But then again, his VQ is a very high end semi auto rimfire, so such accuracy isn't really a surprise.

Below are some 50 yard 5 shot groups I just fired with my Bolt action 22lr using exactly the same ammunition that the OP was using in his VQ. Even a high end semi auto, will have a hard time competing with a high end bolt action.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

the us army now has semi auto sniper rifles I guess they don't know what they are doing?.

Of course the US Forces know what they are doing. Their needs require durable reliable sniping rifles but they only have to shoot moa to fulfill the US forces needs. There are lots of semi auto style AR's and most any other semi or for that matter pumps, levers and even cheap break open single shots that can attain that level of accuracy. The military service rifle requirements are quite easy to satisfy as they are shooting large targets and the purpose for which they use these rifles is quite different than non military competition needs. Outside of the military there are many types of competitive shooting venues where a much higher accuracy standard is required than what the military needs. In many of these unless you have a rifle capable of grouping each and every 5 shot group into 2/10's of a moa or smaller you may as well stay home. It may be possible to make a semi auto that can fulfill these requirements but the bolt action has proven the easiest most stable cost effective platform to achieve the desired results. There have been numerous guys who have used semi auto rimfire platforms to compete with in rimfire benchrest competitions but few have been able to consistently compete with bolt actions and the semi's never really got a foothold in real top end competitions. Believe me when I say if semis, pumps, levers could be made as consistently accurate or even more accurate and reliable than bolts guns then those guys would be using them.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Please I would love for someone to post up 1/2 MOA targets that came from a lever action or a pump action rifle. I only know of a handful of lever/pumps rifles that will acheive this. Not saying it isn't possible just saying that a single shot bolt action rifle has more going for it in the accuracy dept, and I think most would agree.

LC

bolt actions are alot more popular for a few reasons, first of all they are more reliable than just about any other action, they can be fixed easily and have interchangeable parts, they are cheaper because of their simplicity which is a big part of it aswell, if you spent as much money and time on building a lever action gun as you did on a bolt it would be just as accurate all things being equal, you are confusing popularity with effectiveness.

[elkhunter11]

if you spent as much money and time on building a lever action gun as you did on a bolt it would be just as accurate all things being equal,

By the way, a semi auto Volquartsen 22lr like the OP was using costs much more than most bolt actions.

[Dick284]

So how are all things equal when most lever guns have 2 piece stocks?

Go see a BR match and get some learnings.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Don't get me wrong I have a custom built 10/22 that I can shoot paintballs taped to a sheet of paper with @ 100yrds....I have spent more money on that than many have on their hunting rifle (which could be foolish on my part! )

Originally Posted by eastcoast

you are confusing popularity with effectiveness.

No we aren't talking effectivness OR popularity.....I though the discussion was about accuracy of a certain type of action.....I don't think I am confused about anything.

I have owned bolt action rifles, pump action rifles, lever action rifles, falling block rifles, break action, flobert action, etc....the bolt action are the most accurate in my experience. With a single shot bolt (no magazine at all) being the most accurate.

Why is then that for a bolt action you can neck size only when reloading....but for pumps and levers this is not recommended/possible FL sizing is needed? Just curious what your take on that is?

Originally Posted by Dick284

So how are all things equal when most lever guns have 2 piece stocks?

Go see a BR match and get some learnings.

X2


LC

[Dick284]

Full moon or what?

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Full moon or what?

maybe.

I have a choke question for you guys what should I use for 00 buck hunting coyote,28 inch barrell?.

I have a browning buckmark in 22 lr that will shoot dimes all day with match ammo at 50 yds. No mods or F all done to the rifle. She's just a complete shooter.

I also have a Browning BAR in 7 wsm that I would not hesitate to enter into long range comp's if I was into that sorta thing. But I'm not. But I do know where the rifle is at at 500 yds.

[elkhunter11]

I have a choke question for you guys what should I use for 00 buck hunting coyote,28 inch barrell?

Why would you ask us, when you won't believe what we are telling you about firearms?

[Bull's-Eye]

God I love Volquartsen Rifles!!

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Why would you ask us, when you won't believe what we are telling you about firearms?

well I have never shot buckshot before, and I have done extensive googling and came back with nothing.

[Pioneer2]

Why surprised it's a match barrel?

[BallCoeff.435]

What I find bizarre is dropping over a thousand bucks, or maybe even a few thousand, on a rifle in .22LR to try to clip match heads at 50 yards.

Sort of like putting an 1800cc BMW engine on a moped.

Once in a while I'll get a 3/8" 3-shot group at 100 yards with a Ruger 10/22T using Lapua Midas L. But if I'm after 'accuracy' I'll reach for the fat-barreled rifle with short fat center-fire cartridges and get the same group at 300 yards. For less than the price of the high-end .22's.

[260 Rem]

I believe as previously mentioned...it is best to look to the features that are winning benchrest competions..most of which will be single shot bolt action. Of course, they have a lot of other "precision enhancing" features..but the action and the barrel are arguably the most important components. The first time I shot this VQ at the Range, one of the best rimfire shooters approached me and asked for first option on the rifle if I ever decided to sell. I don't shoot a lot of rimfire, but I have never seen a pump, lever, or other semi-auto that shot any better than the targets posted. Not that it makes a big difference, but these groups are shot at 50M = 55 yds. Yes, VQ makes a quality product.

[tolkcraft]

A semi automatic rifle is designed to be mobile and it is not a stationary rifle. It is not a tripod rifle. The one that I have is accurate as long as I learn how to use it properly. That would mean that I would be moving around, and shooting on the go.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by waylow

I have a browning buckmark in 22 lr that will shoot dimes all day with match ammo at 50 yds. No mods or F all done to the rifle. She's just a complete shooter.

Hitting a dime will do ting for you in a .22 smalbore match , however.
The Xring is 1mm wide at 50 meters nd it is sot prone.

rimfire actions need to be as possible, and levers and semis do not cut it when it comes to pure accuracy.
yes, there re semi auto .50's and other military guns, but they are nt as accurate as thir bolt actio counterparts.
tht being said, the bR tyoe actions would seize up quick under militarty conditions, because of their tight tolerances.
Cat