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Old 02-25-2009, 11:11 AM
rosh7674 rosh7674 is offline
 
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Default Cz 858

Hi,
I have a very basic question about CZ 858. Can CZ 858 be used as a hunting and protection gun when in Bear country.

I want to purchase this gun mainly for hunting deer. Since the barrel is short for this gun, I should be able to carry it easily in bushes with me. Plus the recoil from this gun doesn't seem as bad too.

Please post your comments.

Thanks

Rosh
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2009, 11:53 AM
Scott N Scott N is offline
 
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You can get a longer barreled version of this rifle that is non-restricted, so yes, you could used for hunting and bear protection. It seems like it would be pretty under-powered for any bear defense situation though. I'm not sure that suitable hunting ammo is easily available either, isn't most ammo for this type of rifle FMJ?
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Old 02-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Eagle Eye Eagle Eye is offline
 
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For straight bear protection in the woods, I would want a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs. There are several versions around that use a pistol grip type stock. They are reasonably compact, light and easy to carry. They are not expensive either.

The CZ 858 Assualt Rifle uses the 7.62x39mm which some would consider "light" even for deer hunting. it would work at close ranges but don't expect too much. Unlike most assault type rifles, it isn't restricted though so it would be legal in the hunting role. Remember that the magazines are set for 5 rounds. I believe they come equipped with 4 mags in the box. CZ makes nice rifles.

If you really want a light easy carry deer rifle that will stop bears very effectively, you might consider a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 02-25-2009, 06:50 PM
munyee4321 munyee4321 is offline
 
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if you do intend to use this to hunt remember to find expanding bullets in the 7.69 x39 as a majority of this ammunition are FMJs which are not legal to use to hunt. Find some hollow points or soft points i believe they are out there but slim.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2009, 01:33 AM
Chargerguy Chargerguy is offline
 
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The CZ-858 is the long barrel non restricted version. The CZ-58 is restricted. 7.62x39 is a calibre we'll never run out of (ball anyway) but not my choice for bear. 762 hunting ammunition is hard to come by.
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:15 AM
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
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I prefer a shotgun for killing bears at very close range.
Close range form me is two barrels at once , no aiming needed!
Bin there, dun that , still remember what it was like , never had the same sensations before or after - not something I would encourage toe weak of heart to try.
Cat
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:35 AM
IR_mike IR_mike is offline
 
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From one very intense personal experience I can attest to the effectivness of the 7.62 x 39 on black bears at close range....it worked. I am really really glad it worked.

I also learnt through the same experience how effective a jones cow/calf elk call is at attracting Black bears.

Last edited by IR_mike; 02-26-2009 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:20 PM
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AB2506 AB2506 is offline
 
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http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/def...scid=12&pid=43
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2009, 10:11 AM
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Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargerguy View Post
The CZ-858 is the long barrel non restricted version. The CZ-58 is restricted. 7.62x39 is a calibre we'll never run out of (ball anyway) but not my choice for bear. 762 hunting ammunition is hard to come by.
Seems to summarize most of the posts... perhaps couldn't pick a less appropriate rifle for what you said you wanted to do (hunt and bear protection)
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:36 AM
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If you want a small bush gun, cheap, with lots of umph, just pony up the $200.00 or so for a M-44 Moisen Nagant. 7.62 X 54R has more then enough to take any game or eliminate any threat in Alberta. Surpluss Ball is pleantyful and cheap, plus there are lots of good quality hunting rounds available. Now if you just want to justify getting a CZ....then you better come up with another excuse.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:41 PM
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7.62x39 i almost on par with a 30-30, You would have no problem taking deer out to 150 yards. I ve shot coyotes out to around 180yards with mine a few times but around 100yrds is just right. The cz858 is very well built and very accurate not to mention the upgrades available check mine out
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2009, 08:10 AM
rosh7674 rosh7674 is offline
 
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Default Where to get CZ 858

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone know where to get one of these I have checked out wholesalesports website, other places in edmonton. MilArms might have it but there sales team is not helpful at all. Do you guys any place where I could get one. And how much do they run for?

I also want to thank all of you guys responding to my post.

Thanks

Rosh
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2009, 10:21 AM
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These guys sell them.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2009, 10:58 AM
munyee4321 munyee4321 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh7674 View Post
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone know where to get one of these I have checked out wholesalesports website, other places in edmonton. MilArms might have it but there sales team is not helpful at all. Do you guys any place where I could get one. And how much do they run for?

I also want to thank all of you guys responding to my post.

Thanks

Rosh
frontiertaxidermy.com
theshootingedge.com
milarms
p&d

runn about $800
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by munyee4321 View Post
frontiertaxidermy.com
theshootingedge.com
milarms
p&d

runn about $800
backcountry sports in red deer sells them for $650.00
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  #16  
Old 03-10-2009, 03:39 PM
rosh7674 rosh7674 is offline
 
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Default what happens if ottawa decides to prohibit CZ 858

Hi,
What will happen if I own a gun which after a year or so becomes prohibited? I am planning on buying CZ 858 as my bush gun and I am just wondering if someone in Ottawa decides that it should be classifieds as prohibited. Since I can't own a prohibited gun will I end loosing my cz 858?


thanks

Rosh
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  #17  
Old 03-10-2009, 04:24 PM
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Dick284 Dick284 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh7674 View Post
Hi,
What will happen if I own a gun which after a year or so becomes prohibited? I am planning on buying CZ 858 as my bush gun and I am just wondering if someone in Ottawa decides that it should be classifieds as prohibited. Since I can't own a prohibited gun will I end loosing my cz 858?


thanks

Rosh
Well they could prohibit every pump shotgun, and Remington 7400 tomorrow if they wanted. And the legislation allows them to do that through Order in Council, which means it may never even see debate in the house. Wanna know what really is wrong with then Bill C-68. This is part of it for sure.

If past history is anything to go by, when all the sub 101mm barrel handguns, and .25 cal and .32 cal pistols were prohibited, the registered owners obtained prohibited owner status(grandfathered), and could keep them till they either sold them to another prohib owner, or the passed away. Once passing away they prohibated firearms have to either be transfered to another prohibated owner, or destroyed.

Only problem right now, is you cant even use your prohibated firearms at the range, they are strickly safe queens.

This is potentially going to get better with bill C-301, but only for range use. Not re classification.
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2009, 06:29 PM
rosh7674 rosh7674 is offline
 
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So do you think will it be wise to buy the CZ 858. I want to buy this gun for it looks and as a bush gun.

Remington AR15 are they restricted or non-restricted?
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2009, 06:37 PM
IR_mike IR_mike is offline
 
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the r15 as well as the r25 are both restricted.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:35 PM
GMC GMC is offline
 
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Question Question for Dick284

Hi Dick284; Quick question on your last post. You mentioned that Prohib's can't be shot at the range, they've become safe queen's? I have had 12/6 status since it's inception, and currently have Prov. wide ATT for AB. & SK., Could you offer more info, as I've never come across this before.

Thank's kindly; Gerry
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  #21  
Old 03-11-2009, 03:21 AM
Chargerguy Chargerguy is offline
 
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I would not recommend the CZ-858 especially because they're hard to come by right now and I'm looking for a fourth

Do some research on the VZ-58 and you'll see that it's a superior design to the AK. I've shot roughly 2 crates through my "shooter" without a jam or problem. A lot of them have been bump fires too.

I do not recommentd the rifle as a bush gun. I have shot them extensively and it would not be in my top 5 DUE TO CALIBRE. If you want to be protected from Bears, etc, I'd go with a shotgun, you can fend off bears, shoot birds, or whatever for food, pop off signal flares....my #1 for a bush gun. #2 might be an 1895 or Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine.

Last edited by Chargerguy; 03-11-2009 at 03:27 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2009, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC View Post
Hi Dick284; Quick question on your last post. You mentioned that Prohib's can't be shot at the range, they've become safe queen's? I have had 12/6 status since it's inception, and currently have Prov. wide ATT for AB. & SK., Could you offer more info, as I've never come across this before.

Thank's kindly; Gerry
You used to be able to get what they called an SAP to take your 12/6's to the range, the last Liberal Govt tossed that, and now you cant. Go join CGN and have a read on all the 12/6 problems.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:20 AM
dances with gophers dances with gophers is offline
 
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you can find 762x39 igman or privi partisan ammo
at can tire or most gun stores .its soft tip hunting ammo and is about 16 buc a box i got some last nite at sportsmans den in Red deer .
they also have boxes or crates of the norinco ball ammo
for $5.50 for 20 rds
I bought my 858 in Red Deer a couple of years ago its an awesome bang stick suprisingly accurate even with me shooting it .
never had any faults or failures , just remember to pour boiling water in it after shooting and prior to cleaning , to remove the salts (from primer)
as the military ball ammo is corrosive , the modern hunting stuff isnt .
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  #24  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:43 PM
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eltorro eltorro is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Eye View Post
For straight bear protection in the woods, I would want a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs. There are several versions around that use a pistol grip type stock. They are reasonably compact, light and easy to carry. They are not expensive either.

The CZ 858 Assualt Rifle uses the 7.62x39mm which some would consider "light" even for deer hunting. it would work at close ranges but don't expect too much. Unlike most assault type rifles, it isn't restricted though so it would be legal in the hunting role. Remember that the magazines are set for 5 rounds. I believe they come equipped with 4 mags in the box. CZ makes nice rifles.

If you really want a light easy carry deer rifle that will stop bears very effectively, you might consider a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
Don't mean to be an asshat, but please do not use these terms so liberally. A CZ858 -2 is a non-restricted sport rifle. Assault rifles are select fire, not to mention that the only one ever made was Sturmgewehr. Thank you.

+1 for the shotgun for bear use.

Last edited by eltorro; 03-22-2010 at 09:56 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:41 PM
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ruger338 ruger338 is offline
 
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Default cz 858

I caryy the old 45/70 in the back country shes got the back up for almost anything scares the hell out of the squirrels too lol fairly light on the pack as well
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  #26  
Old 03-23-2010, 06:50 PM
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AB.Boy AB.Boy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
You used to be able to get what they called an SAP to take your 12/6's to the range, the last Liberal Govt tossed that, and now you cant. Go join CGN and have a read on all the 12/6 problems.
Are you referring to 12/5, 12/4 etc.?

1. 12(2) means full automatics.
2. 12(3) means converted automatics.
3. 12(4) means firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 12.
4. 12(5) means firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No 13.
5. 12(6) means handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition.

There are many people with 12(6) classification pistols and revolvers that have ATT's to shoot them at their local ranges.

As I understand it 12(5)...12(2) are not being issued ATT. Thus are safe queens.
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  #27  
Old 08-27-2010, 02:24 PM
lowlife72 lowlife72 is offline
 
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How does the CZ 858-2 compare to the SKS and Ruger Mini 30 from both an accuracy and mainenance perspective? Is there actually a solid way to mount optics to the CZ?

I'm not really into the SKS but at about $200 - $250 it seems like good bang for the buck.

On the other hand a Ruger Mini 30 retails for around $900 and although I prefer them to the SKS this seems a bit much to pay for a rifle that will primarilly be used to burn through a bunch of cheap surplus ammo.

The CZ at around $650 - $750 seems like it might be a nice middle ground.

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Old 08-27-2010, 11:50 PM
Chargerguy Chargerguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlife72 View Post
How does the CZ 858-2 compare to the SKS and Ruger Mini 30 from both an accuracy and mainenance perspective? Is there actually a solid way to mount optics to the CZ?

I'm not really into the SKS but at about $200 - $250 it seems like good bang for the buck.

On the other hand a Ruger Mini 30 retails for around $900 and although I prefer them to the SKS this seems a bit much to pay for a rifle that will primarilly be used to burn through a bunch of cheap surplus ammo.

The CZ at around $650 - $750 seems like it might be a nice middle ground.

The CZ-858 is actually a very accurate rifle, and I'm very impressed with it using M43 Czech surplus. The SKS is accurate as well. I'd buy a new in grease Chinese SKS before a refurbed russian....for a shooter. The refurbed russians I've had didn't have the nicest condition barrels. For the price the Chinese sks seems the way to go. Between the 2 I'd go with the 858 every time. Although not chrome lined, unless you find a VZ-58L, they are easy to clean after shooting corrosive ball ammuntion. Mounting optics would be easier with the 858, check out NEITARMS. com for handguards or the QD optics rail, etc. really cool stuff made here in Canada.

Ryan

Last edited by Chargerguy; 08-27-2010 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Additional info
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  #29  
Old 08-29-2010, 12:56 AM
Chinchaga Hermit Chinchaga Hermit is offline
 
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Here’s my two cents.

1. El torro is on target. “Assault rifle” is a mainstream media anti-firearms misnomer used to muddy the waters on the subject of semi-automatic rifles. Fully automatic or select fire rifles are the only rifles correctly described as “assault” type rifles. Using that term infers that it’s a scary rifle that is only meant for “mowing down” people. Also, the use of that term smacks of elitism, in that only bolt action rifles are “legitimate” for the public to own.

2. AB Boy is correct. Owners of 12.6 class pistols and revolvers are still being issued ATT’s. I see guys who are grandfathered to use them regularly on the CDTSA range for steel challenge matches. Owners of 12.5 to 12.2 are SOL. The RCMP began summarily refusing to issue ATT’s for those classes a few years ago. So current owners can posses them, but cannot legally transport them to any range.

3. Rosh, you will have trouble finding soft-point ammo for 7.62x39, as the US state department will not allow export of that caliber of ammo. (See ITAR) Also I suggest that you might want to consider a “right tool for the job” vein of thought. Don’t get me wrong. The Cz 858 is a fun rifle. I personally like the 7.62x39mm, and have two rifles in that caliber, but do not use them for hunting deer, just for service rifle shoots. You would better off with a bolt-action rifle like a .270 Winchester, or .30-06 Springfield as an introductory hunting caliber.

4. Again Rosh, for hunting you can do a lot better for a similar amount of money. If you are on a budget I would suggest one of the introductory type Savage rifle “package” deals that include a basic scope & rings/bases, which could later on be swap out to a better quality scope & mounts when you can afford it. The actions on the Savage’s are not butter-knife smooth, but are exceptionally accurate for the price. If you have more wiggle room in the budget I would suggest, either firstly a Tikka and or secondly a Ruger. The Tikka is a great rifle, is very accurate, and it going to set you back $1300 or more depending on the optics and mounts you use. The Ruger is reliable, fairly accurate, includes mounts, and will run you around $1000 with a decent scope.

5. Cat is also correct. If you are looking for bear defense, a decent 12 gauge without a pistol grip, with a 18.5” barrel would be your best bet.
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Last edited by Chinchaga Hermit; 08-29-2010 at 01:03 AM.
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  #30  
Old 08-29-2010, 07:03 AM
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PoppaW PoppaW is offline
 
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As a deer gun it should work great. The 30-30 works and this is real close to the same. The only issue I see is scope mount options. Most have to be removed to clean the gun. This is mostly an issue with the surplus ammo, as its 'dirty'. I think more people should hunt with these semi's just to help with image. Oh and get a 5rnd mag and loose the banana for hunting. They freak people out as it looks like an ak at a distance.
I really want an XCR in this caliber for the same reasons as the OP. Deer and bear. Tough gun that you can shoot lots for cheap, and hunt with at close range. Nice.
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