Bolt Action vs Assault style auto`s for hunting

[bbbhunter]

Just a question for any-one who knows more about this than I do. A guy at work and my-self seem to butt heads once in awhile about this topic, I always have and always will hunt with the appropriate caliber and bolt action rifle, [nothing against semi-auto hunting style rifles], he is an advocate of the AR-15 style.223 and .308 . I am just wondering what is the disadvantage/advantage if any, of the assault style rifles for big game hunting..I realize that auto`s will jam, he thinks only dirty guns will jam...maybe someone can shed some facts on that topic as well.As far as I know he has never taken a big game animal, and his knowledge of hunting is limited....I am just trying to get some facts about these two topics to maybe help him and my-self learn a little more. Thanks in advance for any help. P.S. I realize that AR`s are restricted, I was thinking more of trjectory or velocity, accuracy type facts..thanks tho Hansel.

[hansol]

Disadvantage: AR15 rifles are restricted and you can't hunt with them.

[marlin1]

better accuracy with a bolt action and more reliable in the field .

[jacob1202]

a bolt action compared to an autoloader in the exact same calibre the bolt action will have higher fps and greater accuracy ....the autoloader doesnt kick as hard...bolt action is the best way to go for any accurate shooting...dont get me wrong an autoloader can still be accurate....but the bolt action will remain far more accurate at longer ranges...i have an m-14 and a savage both are .308.....the bullet from the bolt action had about 400 fps more than the autoloader.... just my experiences...im sure someone will argue about it lol

[TheClash]

sounds like you work with my brother haha...telus???

see advantages to both...bolts are usually more accurate...but i have been able to put great groupings together with a high end ar-15...i think it is accurate enough to make a clean kill...i find bolts easier to field strip and clean if necessary....less to go wrong than on a semi. semi is nice for follow up shots and the recoil feels less...

for big game...i would tend towards a nice bolt action...however i woud love to be able to use the ar for varmits.

[rugatika]

I've heard the AR platform is pretty damn accurate and very reliable as long as it's kept clean. No personal experience just what I've read from the odd article.


I don't think the AR would handicap you in most hunting situations in an equivalent caliber bolt action save for maybe extreme long range hunting situations. Someone with more experience than me may correct me though.

[Cappy]

It would come down to personal preference. I'm very comfortable with AR type platforms, they are very ergonomic and would be very quick on target. One in a calibre like .308 or .338 federal would be a great close quarters rifle. Get an accuraized one in one of the new 6.5's and you wold have a rifle more suited for longer range shots.

Down side is they are heavier than traditional bolts, they are harder and more expensive to get to shoot accurately and they are restricted so it's a pipe dream anyways.

[Dick284]

Yes the AR is restricted, so that point is totally moot.

What does a bolt action rifle have over a similar calibered semi auto.

A manual operated bolt, pretty much.

I've seen some Rem 7400's and Browning BAR's that would rival the accuracy of many bolt action rifles.

Properly maintained a semi is just as reliable as a bolt rifle.

Do you need all that fire power and such....no.

Heck I dont feel under gunned wha I take a Ruger #1 single shot hunting, so why bother with the semi any how.

Afterall is'nt it supposed to be the first shot that counts?

At normal hunting ranges (0-250yds) I'm quite confidant that the semi auto is just as capable of harvesting game as a similar calibered lever, pump, single shot or bolt action rifle.

Run what ya brung, and run what tickles your fancy.

[deanmc]

Why would the military use these if they jammed and were inaccurate?

[russ]

Originally Posted by hansol

Disadvantage: AR15 rifles are restricted and you can't hunt with them.

is it? Are we sure about that? I mean absolutely positive?

[Redfrog]

I go to the U.S. hunting predators. Every time I go I borrow a firearm rather than mess with BATF and Airlines. I could have almost any firearm on the market to use. I always choose an AR15. They are just fun to shoot, and at least as accurate as any of my rifles.

Like Dick, I do not feel undergunned with one of my Riger #1s. I shoot the AR15 in a 223 and it just gets gets the job done, especially on runners or multiple coyotes.

I have friends that have them chambered in any of the "predator" calibers. I know no one who has hunted with one for Predators and gone back to a bolt gun. I do several callers who have the AR15 in more than one caliber

We have an egg shoot every year at one of the hunts. Sure a lot of AR shooters entered there. This year one of the guys killed a coyote DRT at 550 yds,

The AR10 is not restricted in Canada, but is not as accurate as the AR15.

I wouldn't get an AR10 but if the AR15 was not restricted, I would have one in a skinny minute. Take a look at these two firearms. What's he difference?????????????

One is restricted.

Originally Posted by russ

is it? Are we sure about that? I mean absolutely positive?

Yes

Firearms Prescribed as Restricted

* The firearm of the design commonly known as the M-16 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the:
o Colt AR-15;
o Colt AR-15 SPI;
o Colt AR-15 Sporter;
o Colt AR-15 Collapsible Stock Model;
o Colt AR-15 A2;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Carbine;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Government Model Rifle;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Government Model Target Rifle;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Government Model Carbine;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Sporter II;
o Colt AR-15 A2 H-BAR;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Delta H-BAR;
o Colt AR-15 A2 Delta H-BAR Match;
o Colt AR-15 9mm Carbine;
o Armalite AR-15;
o AAI M15;
o AP74;
o EAC J-15;
o PWA Commando;
o SGW XM15A;
o SGW CAR-AR;
o SWD AR-15; and,
o Any 22 calibre rimfire variant, including the:
+ Mitchell M-16A-1/22,
+ Mitchell M-16/22,
+ Mitchell CAR-15/22, and
+ AP74 Auto Rifl

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/rp-eng.htm

[russ]

wow, but I can pick an SKS for $250 at nearly any gunshow; the wonders of bureaucracy.

[M70]

Has anyone had any experience with the Ruger Mini 14 Target Model? I'm a little skeptical with the use of the terms "mini 14" and "target" and accuracy in the same advertisement but who knows? I've shot a plain jane AR 15 and it kind of felt cheap to me. I'm sure that the competition guys have put lots of after market add on's to increase their accuracy.

One thing I did notice from the ejected shells was that most of them would not be suitable for reloading as the extraction was really hard on the casings.

(Not wanting to beat a dead horse but those AR's would look so much better with wood furniture! Jab. Jab. Jab. Jab.)

[duffy4]

"Like Dick, I do not feel undergunned with one of my Riger #1s. I shoot the AR15 in a 223 and it just gets gets the job done, especially on runners or multiple coyotes."

So redfrog, what you are saying is that on some days you would get more coyotes with the AR than you would with the Ruger #1 because of the "fire-power"

Sonds like a definate advantage.

[Cal]

I've met a few guys who prefer the mini 14s to the ARs for relyability, not sure about that target model though, looks tempting.

[Gonehuntin']

I think that the "black rifles" would probably make awesome hunting rifles-they've been battle tested.Accuracy wise, they are supposed to be very good, even as compared to off the shelf bolt guns.Servicability in the field, well, the various militaries of the world have been using and abusing all the different styles for how many years and millions of rds. down range in many harsh environments, when people's lives are on the line, not just a set of antlers and a freezer full of venison.They must be dependable! As far as taste-wise goes, I know of a few people (land owners) that cringe when they see the camo clad weekend warriors with the assault-style (non restricted) rifles ask for access
to their land. However this seems just like a traditional firearms image problem to me.

Most are just convinced that a bolt or pump is the only way to go, so they are traditional-which is cool--BUT please don't start calling someone with a semi, no matter what configuration from old school to new, unsportmanlike or having an unfair advantage-it just does'nt seem so to me.Not that any of you guys are necessarily saying that, but I've run into a few that see it that way.My $0.02 worth of rambling!


And after all that said, I still stick to the old bolt action, but think that anyone getting out hunting, no matter what style of tool you choose, is doing a great thing just to be hunting!

[Redfrog]

Duffy, I'm sure i could kill more coyotes on sunny days than cloudy days....sometimes. And more on cloudy days than sunny days ..sometimes.

I like to hunt with my #1 and have killed triples with it. I have a friend who got a quad last time we hunted together. He used his #1. But when he is in the U.S. he uses one of his AR15s.

If I were king of Canada, gun laws would be different.

Reality is, there is no problem so large that it can't be solved with an application of superior, deadly, firepower.

[CaberTosser]

We should keep in mind that all "military or assault-style" firearms are not restricted. AR-15's don's have a monopoly in that arena. We can have Swiss Arms Classic Greens or Black Specials provided they have the proper barrel length. The shorter barrelled ones are however, still restricted. We can buy and use AR-180's just as we would a Ruger Mini-14. I've got one of these, which are not restricted:



Its a Robinson Arms XCR. They're interesting in that I can get a calibre conversion kit for it and swap between .223 Rem and 7.62 x 39. 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 Rem SPC models are being made but have yet to get across the border. My owners manual notes they are chambered in 5.56 NATO, but my barrel is stamped .223 1/9, likely an importation requirement I'm assuming.

I think its important that we as firearms owners keep and use such firearms as we would with any other style of firearm. Or at the very least stick up for anothers right to own them. While I could see some people getting antsy or upset at the appearance of a 'black rifle', what has that really got to do with its function? If its lethality they're afraid of, my .338 Win Mag or .375 H&H both have vastly more power. Yet nobody gets upset due to their traditional appearance as hunting arms. While I can appreciate that they are not everyones cup of tea; even among those who own and use other styles of firearms, I don't think we should hold one style or another out as "sacrificial lambs" to appease the Anti's. They seek to divide and conquer. You need only to look at England and Australia's horrific examples to know I'm not exaggerating when I state this.

I'm in the process of building a custom AR-15, and its a crying shame I won't be able to go and shoot it anywhere as I could with any other firearms I own. That such ill-concieved logic makes it to legislation disturbs me.

Edit: I suppose I swayed slightly off topic there, so to chime in on the actual thread topic I do my big game hunting with bolt-actions; they just seem more traditional and have more of an air of style or romance about them. They are also less expensive and easier to maintain than similar semi-autos. I will allow that most bolt-actions may exceed the semi's in terms of accuracy, but I will stipulate that this would be in the more common lower priced semi-auto models. There are some highly accurate AR-10's being built, but most are prohibitively expensive; therefore less common and thus less impacting of accuracy averages in the big picture. I would like to take an AR variant out coyote hunting or varminting though. I suppose at some point the mood could potentially strike me to hunt big game with such a firearm, so it'd be nice to have the option. I would be prepared to recieve a good ribbing from my hunting buddies or perhaps run into hesitance from landowners granting permission, but what real difference would the firearm make to whether or not I was hunting respectfully and ethically, assuming a legal big-game calibre and soft point ammo?

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by marlin1

better accuracy with a bolt action and more reliable in the field .

Originally Posted by deanmc

Why would the military use these if they jammed and were inaccurate?

Exactly. And I've see Grendels and .223's that can shoot 5 shots into the low .3's at 100yds. Sounds like a bolt accurate rig to me. If I could, my 'yote rig would be a Colt Hbar with 4-12 on top. They shoot just as well as any bolt and there are great aftermarket triggers.
The Mini-14 leaves me cold. Ugly, and inaccurate for the most part.
(I'm gonna get jumped for that one)

[gube]

If the AR-15 was legal for hunting, I would definitely have one for varminting.
For now I'm looking into this fella for some fun out in the varmint fields. Supposedly a tack driver. These guys are famous for their accurate rimfires, so I expect their new semi-auto centerfires will follow suit.

https://www.volquartsen.com/products...aminated-stock

[Rick65Cat]

Back in the late 80s I took two whitetail with my SKS using Federal SP ammo. Having said that, the longest shot was about 50 yrds. (bushy country in Prescott county )
And then I took another the 3rd year with a 1913 6.5x55 Swedish mauser.

All my lonnng varminting I do with my .204 26" barrel bolt action.
And I have to say...I sold my 2007 Norinco M-14 cause I couldn't get it to group better than 12" at 100 yrds. (Probably due to the scope mount) and I replaced it with a Savage 12FV in .308 that groups wayyy better.

[V_1]

Exactly. I used to hunt with Norc M14, and it's awesome autoloader for under $500 nowadays.



I took a WT doe over 400 yards with it, one shot and my first buck @120, one more doe at ~150; in fact, I never had to shoot twice with this autoloader. Now I made M14 shorty for close range, and went for "aussi" M10 LE clone for the most of my hunts. Only thing bolts beat autoloaders (or semiautos if you wish, but please stop calling them "assault style", they are sporting rifles period regardless of look ) is quetness of action. Nasty clang of my M14 saved quite a few deer lives.

[roadkill]

Originally Posted by V_1

Exactly. I used to hunt with Norc M14, and it's awesome autoloader for under $500 nowadays.



I took a WT doe over 400 yards with it, one shot and my first buck @120, one more doe at ~150; in fact, I never had to shoot twice with this autoloader. Now I made M14 shorty for close range, and went for "aussi" M10 LE clone for the most of my hunts. Only thing bolts beat autoloaders (or semiautos if you wish, but please stop calling them "assault style", they are sporting rifles period regardless of look ) is quetness of action. Nasty clang of my M14 saved quite a few deer lives.

You got one of the AusTralian International Arms rifles? How are they? I was kind of curious about them, but found almost nothing on them.

For me, I think I like the bolt action better just because it's all I've fired. I hope to change that in the near future...

[V_1]

"You got one of the AusTralian International Arms rifles? How are they? I was kind of curious about them, but found almost nothing on them."

I have to admit they are a little overpriced; however they kind od unique in the way that they have all features I want and like in a robust all-around rifle: crome lined barrel (saves me need to clean it often and right after hunt, kids stuff and daddy things take priority), detacheable mag, LE action I really like, they come with scope mount ready to go, iron sights if need be.

Bottom line: highly recommended as low-maintenance field gun. Oh yeah the7y come with 10rnd mags so I load only one once a season
Cons: price and weight (4.1 kg for Sported version)

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...10-infomation/

http://www.australianinternationalarms.com.au/