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  #1  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:32 PM
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Default Anyone own the trapline that borders Cadomin mine?

If you do please get to work on the wolves there and do something!
If you don't want to trap the wolves then find someone that will!
Sad to watch a place with a world class sheep population get decimated!
If I could legally plop a bait in the middle of that mine or anywhere around it I would be!
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
If you do please get to work on the wolves there and do something!
If you don't want to trap the wolves then find someone that will!
Sad to watch a place with a world class sheep population get decimated!
If I could legally plop a bait in the middle of that mine or anywhere around it I would be!
I know the guy that owns it....not much of a trapper at all (if He still owns it). More of sledding cabins. The line goes back into the Red Caps too.
That being said, baiting would be nearly impossible (until dead of winter) with the crazy amount of grizz in that area.

Spruce
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Old 10-27-2017, 10:00 AM
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Sad to hear that Spruce. Guess I could have guess what what going on by spending some time out there. What a sad state it is! If he needs someone to trap it and clean some of those wolves upI'm up for it. I'm sure a little help to get some bait and you could make a huge impact for the sheep around there that are getting whacked daily it looks like..
They really need to start taking some of these lines away from guys that don't use them!!!
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Old 10-27-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
Sad to hear that Spruce. Guess I could have guess what what going on by spending some time out there. What a sad state it is! If he needs someone to trap it and clean some of those wolves upI'm up for it. I'm sure a little help to get some bait and you could make a huge impact for the sheep around there that are getting whacked daily it looks like..
They really need to start taking some of these lines away from guys that don't use them!!!
If thatís the case then yes. Very sad and something should be done
Last year the guy ahead of me at the office to renew was asked to fill out his declaration of what he caught the year prior. He actually chuckled and said no money in trapping and passed it back to her blank.
And here I thought we had to provide proof of activity

Anyway, I hope the situation turns around. Until you see the effects first hand you donít understand the damage an increased wolf presence has
Moose and deer up here dropped off significantly and wolf tracks are everywhere
Weíve had good winters to rebound but the wolves are still holding the ungulates down
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Old 10-27-2017, 10:57 AM
hoyt hntr hoyt hntr is offline
 
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I would imagine there should be more than 1 rfma bordering the mine, I do know the trapper that had one of the bordering lines and he was taking some impressive wolf numbers off it. There are wolf issues all over right now. Sad too say but it's not the fault of one trapper it lays more on the government for letting this go on too long. All lines need too be actively trapped too manage numbers. Doesn't matter if it's beside your favourite sheep spot too make it more important
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:29 PM
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Far from my favorite sheep spot but I get what you are saying. Just find it sad that a place such as Cadomin can wrecked like it has in a 10 year span and it easily could have not been this way
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:06 PM
hoyt hntr hoyt hntr is offline
 
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Connor creek grazing reserve is another prime example. The govt has even went as far as too spend taxpayers money too collar wolves and try and kill off the pack with collar info. But in the meantime the holder of the Rfma covering the reserve has never killed a wolf and has no interst too. And the 2 neighbouring Rfma areas are in the same situation. So it needs too be a widespread control program.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:31 PM
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Do you think trappers would start catching them if they got paid?
How much per bounty would it take for some guys to start catching them?
I think with the crisis we are in in some areas for moose and sheep numbers we should double hunting license fees and the new increased amount should go straight into predator control.
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:52 PM
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Do you think trappers would start catching them if they got paid?
How much per bounty would it take for some guys to start catching them?
I think with the crisis we are in in some areas for moose and sheep numbers we should double hunting license fees and the new increased amount should go straight into predator control.
Another question is, would it work? Do we have the population of trappers with the equipment and knowledge to put several thousand wolves out of business in the space of a couple years? Because that's what it takes, they can sustain some seriously high mortality rates. I'm all for a province wide bounty, widespread 1080 campaign, or cloning you and cowmanbob. Or all of the above.

I don't think we'd ever see such a funding arrangement, but I would absolutly support it. Everything goes to general revenue now, and I sure as hell won't support that.

I think predator management, meaning ALL predators and especially Kevin's unicorns and sheep specialist cougars, needs to be a provincial priority. A lot of studies out of Yellowstone and Alaska are pointing to bears as a significant cause of ungulate mortality as well.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2017, 08:25 PM
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I'd consider a trip down there and try some calling, always on the lookout for new areas
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2017, 08:29 PM
hoyt hntr hoyt hntr is offline
 
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
Do you think trappers would start catching them if they got paid?
How much per bounty would it take for some guys to start catching them?
I think with the crisis we are in in some areas for moose and sheep numbers we should double hunting license fees and the new increased amount should go straight into predator control.
I think the trappers that are putting in an honest effort and having some success should be helped out. Bring them bait, give them some incentive. The trappers that have the lines full of wolves that bring home 5 marten and fisher every year should be penalized and have someone else allowed too trap the wolves. There is line up a mile long of people wanting too trap and they have no place too do it because we have lines tied up not being trapped. put the rights too trap on a draw system easy enough.
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2017, 08:35 PM
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It doesn't take much to learn how to catch them.
Bait is my main issue to be honest.
I started 2 years ago trying to learn how to do it. I caught 27 in 2 years now. I won't have a pile of time this year but plan on seeing what I can do again.
One thing I have noticed is the 2-3 main packs I hit are now basically dead. One pack has 2 critters left. It had 3 last year and it was tough just getting the one out of it. But at the same time that one pack of 2 dogs will be useless at killing moose and elk now. I have seen what it can do in a short time. I have more elk around my area now that I usually didn't see. Maybe it is coincidence but maybe not.
Take out half a pack and it will help for sure.
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:02 PM
mrbgamehunter mrbgamehunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hoyt hntr View Post
Connor creek grazing reserve is another prime example. The govt has even went as far as too spend taxpayers money too collar wolves and try and kill off the pack with collar info. But in the meantime the holder of the Rfma covering the reserve has never killed a wolf and has no interst too. And the 2 neighbouring Rfma areas are in the same situation. So it needs too be a widespread control program.
Don't be so fast to judge on these rfma. I know for a fact the guy at Connor creek was out trapping for wolves. His busy season at work is winter and didn't have as much time as he wanted but he was out there. He has two juniors on this year so they will be picking up on the slack.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:03 PM
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Another question is, would it work? Do we have the population of trappers with the equipment and knowledge to put several thousand wolves out of business in the space of a couple years? Because that's what it takes, they can sustain some seriously high mortality rates. I'm all for a province wide bounty, widespread 1080 campaign, or cloning you and cowmanbob. Or all of the above.

I don't think we'd ever see such a funding arrangement, but I would absolutly support it. Everything goes to general revenue now, and I sure as hell won't support that.

I think predator management, meaning ALL predators and especially Kevin's unicorns and sheep specialist cougars, needs to be a provincial priority. A lot of studies out of Yellowstone and Alaska are pointing to bears as a significant cause of ungulate mortality as well.
The Kevin you speak of would like to and is pushing for the stopping of snaring wolves all together. And get rid of all bounties on wolves. He's been pushing for this for quite some time now, many articles out there.

https://www.google.ca/amp/calgaryher...son-debate/amp

It's great that he is a returning banned member here.
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbgamehunter View Post
Don't be so fast to judge on these rfma. I know for a fact the guy at Connor creek was out trapping for wolves. His busy season at work is winter and didn't have as much time as he wanted but he was out there. He has two juniors on this year so they will be picking up on the slack.
Isn't conner creek east of Whitecourt?
I am sure there is more than one trapline around the mine but it will take a team effort not just one guy taking a stab at them.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:49 PM
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The Kevin you speak of would like to and is pushing for the stopping of snaring wolves all together. And get rid of all bounties on wolves. He's been pushing for this for quite some time now, many articles out there.

https://www.google.ca/amp/calgaryher...son-debate/amp

It's great that he is a returning banned member here.
Bighorn River is the current handle. Must be using a new IP as the mods haven't nuked him yet.

Problem is that particular human virus has infected BHA and is using his Y2Y connections to speak right into the ministers ear. While I think nube has a point, we are probably going to have to handle predator control with little government help. At least for the next two years.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mrbgamehunter View Post
Don't be so fast to judge on these rfma. I know for a fact the guy at Connor creek was out trapping for wolves. His busy season at work is winter and didn't have as much time as he wanted but he was out there. He has two juniors on this year so they will be picking up on the slack.
im not being fast too judge. He's a joke. Leaves snares out all year. His coyote baits look like a garbage dump. Uses dead livestock for bait. The list goes on and on. As for the junior partner story that's been talked about for years but according too the local co there are no junior partners. It got so bad with wolves in there that the grazing association had too pay a local too trap wolves on a damage permit. but yet he still gets too keep the Rfma. Better educate yourself on the situation before you are too quick too judge
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  #18  
Old 10-28-2017, 10:02 AM
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im not being fast too judge. He's a joke. Leaves snares out all year. His coyote baits look like a garbage dump. Uses dead livestock for bait. The list goes on and on. As for the junior partner story that's been talked about for years but according too the local co there are no junior partners. It got so bad with wolves in there that the grazing association had too pay a local too trap wolves on a damage permit. but yet he still gets too keep the Rfma. Better educate yourself on the situation before you are too quick too judge
There's a grazing lease / association up by the Cadomin mine site in the mountains???

Not sure how I missed that one
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:39 AM
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I spent time bow hunting in 346
And the wolves are up in there also
My son was followed by 3 but wouldnt come close enough to arrow.
And at night thats all you hear.
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:02 AM
mrbgamehunter mrbgamehunter is offline
 
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There's a grazing lease / association up by the Cadomin mine site in the mountains???

Not sure how I missed that one
It's not anywhere near cadomin. Just hoyt huntr venting about Some thing he knows nothing about. Sounds like someone envious he doesn't have a line.
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  #21  
Old 10-29-2017, 11:13 AM
mrbgamehunter mrbgamehunter is offline
 
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[QUOTE=hoyt hntr;3653799]im not being fast too judge. He's a joke. Leaves snares out all year. His coyote baits look like a garbage dump. Uses dead livestock for bait. The list goes on and on. As for the junior partner story that's been talked about for years but according too the local co there are no junior partners. It got so bad with wolves in there that the grazing association had too pay a local too trap wolves on a damage permit. but yet he still gets too keep the Rfma. Better educate yourself on the situation before you are too quick too judge[/QUOTE

I'm actually.in this first hand. I am.one of the Junior partners THIS year.
So you better talk to Derrick or levy the Co's again. As for the alligations your throwing around. If you have complaints why didn't you talk to f&w. Quite smearing someone when all
you have is your word of mouth. Which I know now is garbage. Sorry to jack your thread nube. I'm done with this complainer.
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  #22  
Old 10-29-2017, 01:32 PM
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Bighorn River is the current handle. Must be using a new IP as the mods haven't nuked him yet.
No one here by that handle.

Quote:
Problem is that particular human virus has infected BHA and is using his Y2Y connections to speak right into the ministers ear. While I think nube has a point, we are probably going to have to handle predator control with little government help. At least for the next two years.
What makes people think that predators are going to be in an area with no game? That just doesn't compute. First of all, black bears have been shown to be far more damaging to recruitment than wolves in Alberta (as many as 50% of calves taken). Secondly, what's the deal with "predator control"? They are part of a healthy ecosystem, and isn't that our first priority?

Or is the only priority how many critters we can harvest? I've always thought if you have a healthy habitat, there will be lots of critters for all of us, including predators.
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:08 PM
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No one here by that handle.



What makes people think that predators are going to be in an area with no game? That just doesn't compute. First of all, black bears have been shown to be far more damaging to recruitment than wolves in Alberta (as many as 50% of calves taken). Secondly, what's the deal with "predator control"? They are part of a healthy ecosystem, and isn't that our first priority?

Or is the only priority how many critters we can harvest? I've always thought if you have a healthy habitat, there will be lots of critters for all of us, including predators.
Like I have stated time and time again it is not just a predator issue. That is a big part of it but only part of it.
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:14 PM
Chief_Pounderhard Chief_Pounderhard is offline
 
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I know the guy that owns it....not much of a trapper at all (if He still owns it). More of sledding cabins. The line goes back into the Red Caps too.
That being said, baiting would be nearly impossible (until dead of winter) with the crazy amount of grizz in that area.

Spruce
Its sad thats all traplines are now a days. Cheap vacation spots or sledding cabins.
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:55 PM
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No one here by that handle.
There certainly is and his previous username was alta270.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:14 PM
northerntrapper northerntrapper is offline
 
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Its sad thats all traplines are now a days. Cheap vacation spots or sledding cabins.
You have a pretty big brush my friend. I think a majority of traplines are trapped properly, and a few that are not are definitely a minority. It is not beneficial in this anti hunter, anti quadder, anti trapper environment to publically put others down. If you are concerned, offer to buy the line and then you're the man!
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Old 10-29-2017, 05:27 PM
normstad normstad is offline
 
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Like I have stated time and time again it is not just a predator issue. That is a big part of it but only part of it.
OK, I may have missed that. The way I see it, predators have different impacts. As I said earlier, bears are really bad on moose for sure (taking up to 50% of calves under 6 weeks old), and I assume similar realities on elk.

Wolves certainly can have a short term real impact on ungulates, I don't think anyone will disagree with that. The problem with wolves though is multi-faceted. If you take out the alpha male and female, the pack will just split up, with two alphas now. I don't don't think that will end up in less wolves. If the ungulate population goes down, either wolves will breed less or move out.

Now cougars are a totally different situation. They seem to moving into areas they've never been, and a lot of that has to do with increase in deer herds. I wish they would go out in the CWD areas and clean up there, and I've heard some may have been spotted there in fact.

The long and short still is habitat. I see more issues with forestry practices, and some O&G than I do with wolves. But that's just me. I figure if a critter doesn't have a kitchen to eat out of, and a bedroom to sleep and procreate in, it won't be around there for long.
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Old 10-29-2017, 06:10 PM
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OK, I may have missed that. The way I see it, predators have different impacts. As I said earlier, bears are really bad on moose for sure (taking up to 50% of calves under 6 weeks old), and I assume similar realities on elk.

Wolves certainly can have a short term real impact on ungulates, I don't think anyone will disagree with that. The problem with wolves though is multi-faceted. If you take out the alpha male and female, the pack will just split up, with two alphas now. I don't don't think that will end up in less wolves. If the ungulate population goes down, either wolves will breed less or move out.

Now cougars are a totally different situation. They seem to moving into areas they've never been, and a lot of that has to do with increase in deer herds. I wish they would go out in the CWD areas and clean up there, and I've heard some may have been spotted there in fact.

The long and short still is habitat. I see more issues with forestry practices, and some O&G than I do with wolves. But that's just me. I figure if a critter doesn't have a kitchen to eat out of, and a bedroom to sleep and procreate in, it won't be around there for long.
My experience on my trapline is totally different than what you say.
I've basically taken out every animal out of the packs except 2-4 animals. They are basically not able to take down healthy animals I would not think. I have not seen anything that says they have been and I would think survive on what they can catch for smaller game. I do not see numbers increasing at all.
Maybe I got the Alpha pair like you said?
I have been seeing more deer and way more elk the last year and I suspect it is because of this but who knows.

Most the wolf turds I walked by contained sheep fur mostly from what I could tell.

I think Habitat is a huge issue. I don't think there is much for grass off the mine to hold a decent amount of sheep. Sounds strange but again I could be wrong. Areas I hunt sheep have way more grass than what I was seeing around the mine.

I imagine all the sheep trapping and sending them away to the USA doesn't help. Bears don't help. It's a complex thing but for sure more than one thing pointing to a decline
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:04 PM
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......
Most the wolf turds I walked by contained sheep fur mostly from what I could tell.
Interesting, have you talked to any of the biologists in the area? I think a Beth (can't remember her last name) and Jeff Knetteman (sp?) work out of there, don't they?

Quote:
I think Habitat is a huge issue. I don't think there is much for grass off the mine to hold a decent amount of sheep. Sounds strange but again I could be wrong. Areas I hunt sheep have way more grass than what I was seeing around the mine.
Wow, used to be an issue that there was too much grass on the mine, especially non-indigenous grass. There used to be a concern that all the sheep on the mine was a major reason for the sheep transplants as the concern for brain worm was high.

Quote:
I imagine all the sheep trapping and sending them away to the USA doesn't help. Bears don't help. It's a complex thing but for sure more than one thing pointing to a decline
Do you know how many sheep have been trapped and shipped? I thought it was mostly ewes, and then only to thin the herd as, like I mentioned above, it was felt too many were there.

Are you aware of any changes?
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:11 PM
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368 sheep transplants is the number I have found.
Yes the mine has tons of grass it's off the mine that I didn't see much for grass which is maybe part of the reason many do not wonder off the mine.
It would be interesting to get some info from the bio's for sure.
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