mussle breaks or magnaport

[gonewest]

I have recently been looking at a 300 Win. or Weatherby 300 mag. I was wondering how much of the recoil I could eliminate if I had the gun magnaported or a mussle break put on. I don't hear to much about magnaporting anymore is there a reason? I can assume by the look of the shell the Weatherby would have more recoil but if i could get a comparison of another recoil it would give me something to ponder. Thanks

[Blainer]

A .300 win mag doesn't recoil enough in my opinion for a muzzle brake, i have shot one with a brake and one without, with the brake it was like shooting a .308 without it was a little heavier than a .30-06 but still manageable. I can't comment on a weatherby i have never shot one, but it only holds a bit more poweder than a win mag so i don't imagine you would need a brake for it either unless you are recoil sensitive. personally i find the .300 RUM is about my limit for recoil, but they come back significantly harder than either of the other .300 mags. I think stock fit is the biggest factor in shooting and felt recoil. If it was me i would have a mercury recoil reducer installed instead of a brake, then you dont have to worry about the increased noise and muzzle blast of a brake.

[Traps]

For a brake bank on anywhere between 30 and 50%. Depends on how much powder is in the cartridge. A brake would work better with more powder because with more powder there is more muzzle blast and recoil. As you increase charge more and more energy gets wasted outside the barrel instead of inside where it works on the bullet - law of diminishing returns.
With all that said and everything being equivalent like stock design and all that other sort of stuff you would take a 300 win mag and it would act like a 30-06. (taking 60% of 30 ft-lbs = 18 ft-lbs) IMO I would just go out and buy a 30-06, but if your heart is set on the two you list I would get a 300 win mag with a muzzle break as the magna port releases gas before its out of the barrel so you lose velocity which is the whole reason your looking at the higher velocity cartridges to begin with.

[209x50]

Corlane's in Dawson Creek has a brake design that doesn't increase the noise levels to the SHOOTER. Anybody beside will suffer though and care must be taken. It works well to reduce recoil.

[sikwhiskey]

WHAAAT, I CAN"T HEAR YOU! WHATTT. Just had a guy at the range today shooting a 303 Lee Enfield with a brake on it right beside me. CAN"T QUITE HEAR YOU. If you own a new Toyota I'd look into some good Brakes. If recoil is to much for you Look for a Dirrerent CAL, or a limbsaver. Just My 2 bits.
Plugs and ear muffs on You could still feal the sound waves hitting ya. My ears are still ringing

[Bricklayer]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

If you own a new Toyota I'd look into some good Brakes.

HA HA HA!!!

[leo]

Stock design and a good recoil pad are more important as to actual felt recoil.I own several magnum rifles from 338,(3) various 300's ,270wsm etc.I find that the classic stock configuration works best for me.But of course fit is an individual preference.Put a Simms Limbsaver pad on for sure.But I would not own a rifle with a muzzle brake . If you wear hearing protection when you shoot,dry fire practice with a snap cap to maintain good shooting habits,and practice shooting as much as possible ,most people should be able to handle the recoil of any 300 mag.

[6.5x47 lapua]

dont let anybody tell you there is a quieter muzzle brake.some muzzle brakes have the first set of holes raked forward in an attempt to make the sound travel more forward.i have put a number of these on and believe me these brakes are just as noisy as a standard brake.what they do is take some muzzle blast or concussion from the shooter .

[Traps]

Originally Posted by custom gunworx

dont let anybody tell you there is a quieter muzzle brake.some muzzle brakes have the first set of holes raked forward in an attempt to make the sound travel more forward.i have put a number of these on and believe me these brakes are just as noisy as a standard brake.what they do is take some muzzle blast or concussion from the shooter .

X2.

As the direction moves from vertical to more forward it will also provide more recoil.

[gonewest]

Thanks for the input. I will definately go with a limbsaver if i go that way. Now I know why magnaporting isn't done much anymore.

[Tundra Monkey]

Hey Gonewest,

You could go with the Browning with a Boss and a CR.....best of both worlds but not that pleasing to the eye of some.

tm

[marky_mark]

I truely believe that my 300 wby is louder than my buddies 338 win with a break. If you put a brake on one of those you will ruin your hearing and anyone buddy who is beside will be deaf also. That is unless you wear 2 sets of ear protection when hunting Your probably better off shooting a 270 wsm which will have a exceptionally long range, very little recoil, bullets are everywhere, and they are cheaper too! Just my 2 cents

Originally Posted by custom gunworx

dont let anybody tell you there is a quieter muzzle brake.some muzzle brakes have the first set of holes raked forward in an attempt to make the sound travel more forward.i have put a number of these on and believe me these brakes are just as noisy as a standard brake.what they do is take some muzzle blast or concussion from the shooter .

Have you mounted one of the Corlane brakes? From what I've seen they definitely reduce noise to the shooter and reduce recoil but perhaps I'm wrong.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by gonewest

I have recently been looking at a 300 Win. or Weatherby 300 mag. I was wondering how much of the recoil I could eliminate if I had the gun magnaported or a mussle break put on. I don't hear to much about magnaporting anymore is there a reason? I can assume by the look of the shell the Weatherby would have more recoil but if i could get a comparison of another recoil it would give me something to ponder. Thanks

All I can add is that the 300 wby Mag Does have alot of recoil.My 300wby has given 3 or 4 guys bad scope bite over its 30 year history.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Traps

For a brake bank on anywhere between 30 and 50%. Depends on how much powder is in the cartridge. A brake would work better with more powder because with more powder there is more muzzle blast and recoil. As you increase charge more and more energy gets wasted outside the barrel instead of inside where it works on the bullet - law of diminishing returns.
With all that said and everything being equivalent like stock design and all that other sort of stuff you would take a 300 win mag and it would act like a 30-06. (taking 60% of 30 ft-lbs = 18 ft-lbs) IMO I would just go out and buy a 30-06, but if your heart is set on the two you list I would get a 300 win mag with a muzzle break as the magna port releases gas before its out of the barrel so you lose velocity which is the whole reason your looking at the higher velocity cartridges to begin with.

The benefits of a brake are in direct relationship to pressure - not the amount of powder. For example: a brake is much more effective on a 257WM using considerably less powder than a 458 Lott using much more.
Secondly Mag-na-porting is not popular up here because there is nobody doing it up here, and the porting was designed primarily to keep your muzzle down - not for maximum recoil reduction. Muzzle brakes are available everywhere, and are designed to reduce recoil. And as for velocity reduction with Mag-na-porting here is a little write up from a study:

Mag-na-port has been tested many times since its initial introduction. H.P. White Laboratories performed tests on rifles equipped with and without Mag-na-port to determine the effect on free recoil and velocity. Findings in the laboratory-conducted test had a 20.8% reduction in free recoil for the rifle equipped with Mag-na-port. These same tests noted velocity averages less than four-tenths of 1 percent with the Mag-na-ported rifle, considered statistically insignificant.

4/10 of 1% is hardly a velocity loss worth considering.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Have you mounted one of the Corlane brakes? From what I've seen they definitely reduce noise to the shooter and reduce recoil but perhaps I'm wrong.

I too have heard good things with regards to their "quiet brake" lots of skeptics out there - with good reason, however I would like to hear more before closing my mind to the idea.

[skidderman]

If I had a choice I would magnaport but who does it? No one I know of. I have a browning 300 wsm with the muzzle brake and cr. With or without cr the noise is unbearable. If someone wants to offer me a fair price for it they can come and get it. That is how much I like it. Will never ever get another rifle with a muzzle brake. For me it was a huge mistake

[double gun]

Originally Posted by skidderman

If I had a choice I would magnaport but who does it? No one I know of. I have a browning 300 wsm with the muzzle brake and cr. With or without cr the noise is unbearable. If someone wants to offer me a fair price for it they can come and get it. That is how much I like it. Will never ever get another rifle with a muzzle brake. For me it was a huge mistake

Why dont you unscrew it, and either get a thread protector or have the barrel re-crowned where the threads start? *re-read your post you find the noise too loud with or without anything screwed on?

[skidderman]

Originally Posted by double gun

Why dont you unscrew it, and either get a thread protector or have the barrel re-crowned where the threads start? *re-read your post you find the noise too loud with or without anything screwed on?

I've thought of that and may do so. It is likely a better idea than losing money selling it. Other than the noise I really like the gun.

[marky_mark]

Why not look at getting a heavier weighted rifle? Add a good recoil pad that would take a lot of the bite out of the rifle. Too many horror stories from muzzle brakes

[redneck posse]

i have a Tikka T3 Lite in 300WSM that i can shoot all day. put a limb saver on it and it has less recoil than my old 280. i was thinking about getting a break also but changed my mind after the limb saver went on.

[crazyfish]

I've complained since the day the brake was put on my 7mm, so it's at the gunsmith having it removed right now ! If recoil is a big problem , then maybe find a different caliber that suits you better ! ( my .02$) I don't think i will ever put another one on ! My friends hate when i shoot, and now i'm trying to teach my girls, last thing i want is to **** them off too ! P.s don't ever forget to wear hearing protection if you do put one on !

[Traps]

Originally Posted by double gun

The benefits of a brake are in direct relationship to pressure - not the amount of powder. For example: a brake is much more effective on a 257WM using considerably less powder than a 458 Lott using much more.
Secondly Mag-na-porting is not popular up here because there is nobody doing it up here, and the porting was designed primarily to keep your muzzle down - not for maximum recoil reduction. Muzzle brakes are available everywhere, and are designed to reduce recoil. And as for velocity reduction with Mag-na-porting here is a little write up from a study:

Mag-na-port has been tested many times since its initial introduction. H.P. White Laboratories performed tests on rifles equipped with and without Mag-na-port to determine the effect on free recoil and velocity. Findings in the laboratory-conducted test had a 20.8% reduction in free recoil for the rifle equipped with Mag-na-port. These same tests noted velocity averages less than four-tenths of 1 percent with the Mag-na-ported rifle, considered statistically insignificant.

4/10 of 1% is hardly a velocity loss worth considering.

Doublegun, Gonewest is asking about two cartridges of the same caliber. The 300 Wthby and the 300 Win Mag. This then begs the explanation what would happen if you added more powder to the same caliber......more recoil and yes more pressure at the muzzle of which the muzzle break would be more efficient at reducing recoil. Now that you have introduced cross caliber comparisons between the 257 and the 458 (which wasn't part of Gonewest's question or my response I might add) your comparing the relative effectiveness of a muzzle break. How would you do this? Its by the expansion ratio. It is case volume plus bore volume, divided by case volume, which the describes the number of times the gas will expand by the time the bullet reaches the muzzle. A muzzle break is more effective on a cartridge with a low expansion factor.

Magnaport - I don't agree that its just because no one does it around here. It takes more machining to do a thread on, you have to machine the threads on both the muzzle break and the barrel and they have to be concentrically aligned which holds it to tighter tolerances, which costs more. Magnaport is a much simpler and cost effective way to make a break but its permanent. To be honest the distance the ports are away from the muzzle has a direct impact on velocity. Once gas escapes the bullet has to travel down the rifling resisting friction which takes away its momentum. I haven't read the studies but its pretty common sense. How much losses I don't know, I'll give you that it may not be much.

[double gun]

Traps,
GoneWest didnt ask which of the two calibers would benefit more from a brake, he asked how much recoil he could expect to reduce with either of his choices. In your first post you said "A brake would work better with more powder because with more powder there is more muzzle blast and recoil". With no mention of calibers - I was only stating that it has to do with pressures not powder volume, recoil or muzzle blast. I stand by my comment - the 2 cartridges I used were only to make my point easier to understand. Mag-na-porting is done with a EDM I would bet you $1,000,000 under 3% smiths in Canada have one if any(its also patented.) Where as 99% have a lathe, and threading the end of a barrel is no big deal. I agree with you on the distance the ports are from the end of the muzzle will alter the velocity, but mag-na-porting is done very close to the muzzle - and as stated in the test 4/10 of 1% loss isnt a big deal - your "common sense" comment holds no water compared to actual testing.

Originally Posted by double gun

I too have heard good things with regards to their "quiet brake" lots of skeptics out there - with good reason, however I would like to hear more before closing my mind to the idea.

Ya, I'm not certain anyone has claimed that it was a quieter brake, just that it reduced noise to the shooter. A few people on here seem to be missing that distinction.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ya, I'm not certain anyone has claimed that it was a quieter brake, just that it reduced noise to the shooter. A few people on here seem to be missing that distinction.

They call it the "quiet brake" on their website. Whatever they call it, I have only read one first hand experience with it and it was very interesting. I would like to hear from more people who actually have one.

[Traps]

Doublegun
To avoid taking over this thread with futile arguments, here's a reiteration of Gonewest's question:

I can assume by the look of the shell the Weatherby would have more recoil but if i could get a comparison of another recoil (with muzzle break) it would give me something to ponder.

300 win mag like a 30-06 with a muzzle break, 300 weatherby like a ..... you can fill this one in if you like and provide some useful discussion.

Actual testing - forward me the report and enlighten me.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Traps

Actual testing - forward me the report and enlighten me.

For the original test results you will need to ask: http://www.hpwhite.com/

But here is another:
http://www.mab.com.au/about/articles/magnapor.htm

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Traps

300 win mag like a 30-06 with a muzzle break, 300 weatherby like a ..... you can fill this one in if you like and provide some useful discussion...

Take your loading manual, look up the 300 Weatherby mag (and the load you wish to use) Calculate the recoil generated:
Step 1) ((Vel. X wt) divided by 225400) + ((powder gr. X 4000) divided by 225400) = Impulse (I)

Step 2) (impulse X 32.2) divided by Guns weight = Vg (free recoil energy)

Step 3) ((VgX Vg) X gun wt) divided by 64.4 = E (recoil energy in ft pounds)

Once you have found the Impulse, combine steps 2 and 3.

((I X I) X 16.1) divided by the guns weight = E (same as above)

Now reduce the E by the percentage the actual brake claims (in percentage)
Compare the new recoil in foot pounds to whatever other caliber you wish.

[Dean2]

I have a Magna-Ported Marlin 45-70. It did exactly what it claimed, it reduced recoil some but the biggest effect is it significantly reduced muzzle jump with heavy loads. Rested on a front rest forearm free, the gun would hit 6 inches higher at 100 yards than if the foreend was held down. After Magna-Porting this effect went away. The ports are located very close to the end of the barrel and are almost invisible unless you look real close. As to loosing velocity, with the same load through a chrongraph, I could not tell any difference pre and post. It also did not make the gun loud like muzzle breaks do. I would definitley do it again on a gun that needed help to control muzzle jump.

For recoil suppression, a properly mounted mercury supressor in the stock, cutting or trimming the rear of the stock so it is exactly perpendicular to the line of the bore and a pachmeyer or limb saver are as good as most breaks and better than some, and no noise.