Why Introduce Perch Into a Trout Lake?

[HunterDave]

I live in Morinville but it's been about 5 years since I fished the reservoir here. When I used to frequent there I'd catch some pretty nice trout for supper. I decided to head out there this winter and much to my dismay my bait was constantly getting nibbled on by 3" perch. I've been told that someone in their ultimate wisdom decided to dump a bunch of perch in there and MNR wants them out. I want to ask you hardcore fisherman, if it's true, why someone would want to do something like that?

I don't frequent the fishing forum very much so I don't know what the general consensus is about this sort of thing. What I'd like to know are the facts from you guys that know more about it than I do about it.

Thanks in advance.

[Shmag]

Well people just want a variety and are totally un-aware of the impact it will have. They figure they will have the best of both worlds, but it is the opposite. Give it a day or two, When a member by the name of Sundance post's on here. He is the guy to talk to on this one, he is battling the same problem at a private lake he manages and it's been a couple years now and i'm not sure if they are making progress on it or not.

[HunterDave]

I was told by guys out there fishing that an MNR guy was there telling everyone to make sure that every perch that they caught didn't make it back into the lake. Absolutely no one had any problem with that. Based on my experience this winter there are so many perch in there that the only thing to do is to kill the lake and start from scratch again. You'd never get them all out without doing it. They'll spawn this Spring and there will be even more of them. I've seen lakes killed in Ontario where someone introduced pike to trout ponds because they didn't like all the people/traffic coming around but there are so many fishing opportunities in Ontario that it is not as big a deal as here. With the limited fishing available in Alberta something like this really ticks me off particularly in my own backyard.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Shmag

When a member by the name of Sundance post's on here. He is the guy to talk to on this one, he is battling the same problem at a private lake he manages and it's been a couple years now and i'm not sure if they are making progress on it or not.

Yeah, I found him, sundancefisher, thanks.

[Shmag]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I was told by guys out there fishing that an MNR guy was there telling everyone to make sure that every perch that they caught didn't make it back into the lake..

Well thats good advice but it probably won't do squat, from what i have read from sundancefishers threads they have spent alot of man hours on his waters with nets. Unfortunately the best bet for yours is probably chemical/poison to kill off everything and in a few years start from scratch again.

Not sure if i used the right terms for it as in chemical/poison, but thinking thats what it is, there was a thing i was reading on it a while back, may of been on the srd site. Anyways if you have some chats with sundancefisher he knows alot more about it than i.

[javlin101]

Is that not what they ended up doing to Carson Lake up by Whitecourt. Seems to me some years back Pike or Perch got into the lake & they ended up killing everything & restocked it.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I want to ask you hardcore fisherman, if it's true, why someone would want to do something like that?

Because some ******* looked at your reservoir and decided it would make a good place for perch fishing. Said ******* probably didn't like fishing for trout, and he didn't know a darn thing about perch: what happens, for example, when they are introduced into lake without predators. This ******* had no respect for the ecosystem, or the law.

The best way to get them out would probably rotenone, but even the success rates of that vary. It this is your drinking water that might be a hard sell.

Other options are (in no particular order):

• Pike could be stocked (bye-bye trout fishery),
• Hours and hours of manual labour and a netting program (which would need to be continued as long as there were perch in the reservoir ie: forever)
• Do nothing.

Edit: Oopsie. I wrote a bad word. How about "Jackarse" instead?

[spopadyn]

If you get the latest Alberta Outdoorsman magazine they discusss this exact problem and how it relates to Hasse. The truth is, Alberta has probably put too much effort into creating trout fisheries instead of perch\walleye\pike fisheries. As most people don't fish for trout, it almost seems they also don't give a damn about the trout lakes. In Hasse, the bucket brigade has now put in pike. These pike are fat, growing fast, and breeding. Likely the pike population wll reach a critical mass and clean out the lake of all the perch and , unfortuneately, all the trout. Not sure if the lake can sustain big pike or not - but maybe it can. One Alberta biologist is a proponate of just leaving it alone and see what happens. Maybe your lake will suffer the same damage - maybe not. Stunted perch are not a food source for trout so you need to find someway of controlling the population.

[bingo1010]

i will probably get slammed for this but here it is anyway.... i think the reason people do this is they don't like trout fishing..slow and unproductive when you take kids out( not enough action to keep them occupied). so they think about how perch fishing is and it goes from there. i can relate to the feelings of sitting by a trout pothole for hours and the only thing biting are the bugs. in the summer the food in most of the trout ponds is plentiful and the fish are harder to catch.....boring , especially with kids. in go the perch and up goes the excitment.... so the thought is. but as darkaisling has pointed out, the long term results are not apparent. with this happening all over the province i think it is obvious that more than a few ponds need some pike and perch in them... as that seems to be the what people are doing themselves. so before anyone jumps on me a labels me as one of "those guys" that perch a lake, just step back and ask......why are people doing this and then maybe a solution can be found. and for the record..NO i have never perched a lake

[italk2u]

Instead of all this conjecture, I think it would be great if we could hear from an actual bucket biologist who has experience introducing perch into trout waters.
All he/she needs to do, to avoid being traced through an IP address is to post from a public computer in an internet cafe or the library.
I would really like to hear the logic they come up with to justify it.
So is there anyone out there who'd like to tell us why????

[bingo1010]

can anyone spell "confession"

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by spopadyn

If you get the latest Alberta Outdoorsman magazine they discusss this exact problem and how it relates to Hasse. The truth is, Alberta has probably put too much effort into creating trout fisheries instead of perch\walleye\pike fisheries. As most people don't fish for trout, it almost seems they also don't give a damn about the trout lakes. In Hasse, the bucket brigade has now put in pike. These pike are fat, growing fast, and breeding. Likely the pike population wll reach a critical mass and clean out the lake of all the perch and , unfortuneately, all the trout. Not sure if the lake can sustain big pike or not - but maybe it can. One Alberta biologist is a proponate of just leaving it alone and see what happens. Maybe your lake will suffer the same damage - maybe not. Stunted perch are not a food source for trout so you need to find someway of controlling the population.

IMHO pothole trout lakes and managing pike/perch/walleye fisheries are two different things.

I don't think Alberta has put too much effort into creating trout fisheries. They are simple. Have lake...stock trout...repeat. There is no effort and properly managed...attract tons of people. Look to Bullshead for example.

Perch/pike/walleye lakes can not be created. You need to big a lake. You need a natural population. To manage that just requires managing, size, catch rates, populations, harvest rates etc. It takes more time...and budget and manpower. That is what we lack. Staff to manage and in the past we lacked vision and leadership to make hard decisions before stocks crashed. IMHO though...some of that lack of vision was due to lack of information due to short staffing.

But enough complaining about the past...how about we all look to the present and future. What can we do...what do we need to do to make our fisheries fun and sustainable? That is what we need to ask. That also means people have to stop illegal stocking. It does nothing but harm.

We need to unit as a lobby group and start throwing our political weight around.

Sun

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by bingo1010

.... i think the reason people do this is they don't like trout fishing..slow and unproductive when you take kids out( not enough action to keep them occupied). so they think about how perch fishing is and it goes from there. i can relate to the feelings of sitting by a trout pothole for hours and the only thing biting are the bugs.

That's not how the Morinville reservoir was though. There were plenty of trout in there, continually stocked and they were easy to catch. Families could take their kids there with just a worm on a hook and a bobber and catch nice sized trout all day long if the conditions were right. I'd go there in the evening and catch 3 or 4 trout on any given night. NOW, these little perch that are in there are at your line as soon as you drop it into the water and will be stealing the bait off of the kid's line. It's not allot of fun for the kids if they can't hook the perch and have to constantly pull their line in to make sure that the bait is still on.

I'll be using a spinner or cleo when I go out again so at least I can adjust my fishing method. It's just too bad for the kids that can only fish with a bobber though.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

That's not how the Morinville reservoir was though. There were plenty of trout in there, continually stocked and they were easy to catch. Families could take their kids there with just a worm on a hook and a bobber and catch nice sized trout all day long if the conditions were right. I'd go there in the evening and catch 3 or 4 trout on any given night. NOW, these little perch that are in there are at your line as soon as you drop it into the water and will be stealing the bait off of the kid's line. It's not allot of fun for the kids if they can't hook the perch and have to constantly pull their line in to make sure that the bait is still on.

I'll be using a spinner or cleo when I go out again so at least I can adjust my fishing method. It's just too bad for the kids that can only fish with a bobber though.

I agree...I challenge anyone using that argument to show us one 4-6 inch perch lake that has tons of kids...especially people that fish it regularly.

There are lots of trout lake examples... People go to those lakes for the trout...not the perch.

IMHO the bozos stocked perch in the lake when they could not catch the trout because they either are poor fishermen or just not using the right techniques or due to existing regulations the stocked trout all got fished out to quickly.

[Paul C]

Back in the late eighties I fished for perch and trout in that pond. I talked to a man who said if I catch perch I should discard them. My first question I asked are you a f & w officer. He said no and I said there is nothing in the regs that say that perch need to be wasted or discarded. Monday I phoned f&w and they informed me that the local club wants to get them out of there pond. They did say this man had good intentions but should not tell the general public to discard fish. I did find out that members put a pine tree upside in the water to try and catch the perch eggs.
Last year I fished both ponds and when I gutted the trout found large fresh water cray fish in there stomach.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

IMHO pothole trout lakes and managing pike/perch/walleye fisheries are two different things.

I don't think Alberta has put too much effort into creating trout fisheries. They are simple. Have lake...stock trout...repeat. There is no effort and properly managed...attract tons of people. Look to Bullshead for example.

Perch/pike/walleye lakes can not be created. You need to big a lake. You need a natural population. To manage that just requires managing, size, catch rates, populations, harvest rates etc. Sun

Sun, I agree 100%. I'm from out East where they don't have the same problems that are unique to Alberta. Based on my experience I get the feeling, and I don't mean to offend anyone here, that everyone is allot more educated about protecting and preserving their fishing opportunities there.

In Ontario people are very careful not to introduce foreign species into different bodies of water by not using types of minnows that are not already in the lake (or at the very least making sure that they are dead before using them), draining their bilge tanks when moving their boat from one body of water to the next, etc. The bureaucrats educated and the fisherman cooperate for the greater good. Maybe not all but generally speaking.

It's probably allot easier to manage the fishing in the East than here because there are allot more bodies of water and bigger lakes and rivers. Any problem that occurs out there is not as noticeable as it is out here. But as far as what I've seen out here, the lakes and rivers in Alberta are not managed very well. Take for example Lac LaNonne, which I am very familiar with. Right now that lake is teeming with walleye with allot of pike and whitefish. I heard that years ago it was a great perch lake as well but because the walleye and pike populations were allowed to increase so significantly it would be hard to find one in there now. That's not good management in my opinion.

[S.A.S]

How do they get the perch anyways? Could you not just stop the sale of all live minnows?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by S.A.S

How do they get the perch anyways? Could you not just stop the sale of all live minnows?

It's as easy as catching and throwing in some reproducing sized perch and after a few years they start to take over the lake. Or maybe it was done a little at a time over a period of years. Who knows? They were definitely introduced by man though. I haven't been there for about five years so I don't know how or when it was done.

[Beazer]

I just want to know what goes through the mind of percher's.

I'm presuming they make the effort to catch several perch(maybe multiple times) put them in a bucket or whatever and make the trip to the Lake and dump em?
I don't know how they could have gotten in Sundance.

I'm sure the thought of; Is this wrong? goes through the head of some of these people.

Unless they're is another way they do it. Someting more sinister.

ps-I would love Pike put into Sundance to clean it out and then it would probably be easier to net them. Might take less time, lol. Then we can restock with Trout.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Beazer

I just want to know what goes through the mind of percher's.

I'm presuming they make the effort to catch several perch(maybe multiple times) put them in a bucket or whatever and make the trip to the Lake and dump em?
I don't know how they could have gotten in Sundance.

I'm sure the thought of; Is this wrong? goes through the head of some of these people.

Unless they're is another way they do it. Someting more sinister.

ps-I would love Pike put into Sundance to clean it out and then it would probably be easier to net them. Might take less time, lol. Then we can restock with Trout.

It would not work. You could not put enough pike in to make a difference and still make it a sustainable fishery. Plus it is also illegal. People want some trout to eat...they seem way less interested in the perch. Therefore as a managed fishery...trout makes for the best sport and the preferred eating species.

Would it not be totally cool though to have a lake that you could catch rainbows, cutts, browns, brooks, and hybrids like tigers and splake etc...just for a total free for all...what will I catch next?

[Fishfinder]

My question is this? Would it not be easier...hence man hrs/labour jus to restart the lake??? I apologize Sundance as I am sure this question has come up b4. Drain it and start all over??? Sounds like a crummy plan but can those pesky perch be ridded faster No??

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Fishfinder

My question is this? Would it not be easier...hence man hrs/labour jus to restart the lake??? I apologize Sundance as I am sure this question has come up b4. Drain it and start all over??? Sounds like a crummy plan but can those pesky perch be ridded faster No??

Draining and refilling...would cost between $500,000 and $1,000,000. Water needs to be purchased.

Rotenone...$40,000...no support within the community for using a fish poison.

Netting...lots of work...but our only option which we want to see succeed. We can not remove them all...just control what is there.

Cheers

Sun

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Fishfinder

My question is this? Would it not be easier...hence man hrs/labour jus to restart the lake??? I apologize Sundance as I am sure this question has come up b4. Drain it and start all over??? Sounds like a crummy plan but can those pesky perch be ridded faster No??

I think that it would definitely be easier. Dump in rotenone and kill all the fish in the lake. It only lasts up to 6 months in the water so it wouldn't be long before you could re-stock the lake. Dump in the Fall and restock in the Spring. The problem is, there's no way to stop some idiot from dumping perch back in again once you've done all of that? Education?

[mustardb]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It would not work. You could not put enough pike in to make a difference and still make it a sustainable fishery. Plus it is also illegal. People want some trout to eat...they seem way less interested in the perch. Therefore as a managed fishery...trout makes for the best sport and the preferred eating species.

Would it not be totally cool though to have a lake that you could catch rainbows, cutts, browns, brooks, and hybrids like tigers and splake etc...just for a total free for all...what will I catch next?

Weren't Pike introduced into Cow Lake (by Rocky Mountain House) by Fish and Wildlife a year or so back? My understanding was that it was a perched lake as well, but it has been a while since I fished there.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by mustardb

Weren't Pike introduced into Cow Lake (by Rocky Mountain House) by Fish and Wildlife a year or so back? My understanding was that it was a perched lake as well, but it has been a while since I fished there.

It is a bigger lake and due to the natural springs, beaver dams, floating plants....you can't rotenone it.

"HunterDave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfinder View Post
My question is this? Would it not be easier...hence man hrs/labour jus to restart the lake??? I apologize Sundance as I am sure this question has come up b4. Drain it and start all over??? Sounds like a crummy plan but can those pesky perch be ridded faster No??
I think that it would definitely be easier. Dump in rotenone and kill all the fish in the lake. It only lasts up to 6 months in the water so it wouldn't be long before you could re-stock the lake. Dump in the Fall and restock in the Spring. The problem is, there's no way to stop some idiot from dumping perch back in again once you've done all of that? Education?"

Rotenone is temp dependent... If used in the summer it is gone in about 3 days... If used just before winter...it is long gone before Spring. You can stock 2 weeks after use with no problem.

We have perch in Sundance and Midnapore. None in Chap, MacKenzie, Bonaventure, Bonavista, Arbour, Heritage, Auburn etc. People are learning. Education is key. Hopefully this board and others spread the word.

Cheers

Sun

[spopadyn]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Draining and refilling...would cost between $500,000 and $1,000,000. Water needs to be purchased.

Rotenone...$40,000...no support within the community for using a fish poison.

Netting...lots of work...but our only option which we want to see succeed. We can not remove them all...just control what is there.

Cheers

Sun

Hi Sun,

I know you are well educated in the management of lakes, but, it was surprising to see those healthy pike pulled out of Hasse. I thought Hasse was too small to support a sustainable pop. of pike - it appears I was wrong. If Hasse proves up that monster pike will be produced, would you consider pike as a solution for your perch in Sundance Lake?

Cheers,

PS: Just a question, not a judgement.

[FishinFreak]

how about sterilized pike as a solution for perched lakes combine it with an open pike fishery and a closed perch fishery; eventually you would be left with a empty lake ready for restocking of trout would you not ?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by italk2u

Instead of all this conjecture, I think it would be great if we could hear from an actual bucket biologist who has experience introducing perch into trout waters.
All he/she needs to do, to avoid being traced through an IP address is to post from a public computer in an internet cafe or the library.
I would really like to hear the logic they come up with to justify it.
So is there anyone out there who'd like to tell us why????

well....i may or may not have known a guy once many years ago who may have caught some perch from a friends dugout on that guys farm to put in his own dugout on his farm. it may or may not have been that simple. ok, really, thats what happened. he wanted to be able to catch some fish at his own house so he caught some from a pond and put em in a 5 gallon pail and drove them home. did that half a dozen times and they took off. they survived the first winter and seemed to reproduce. that was 20 years ago and i have no idea what has happened there since. he sold it and moved to bc and i havent seen him in years and dont know who lives there now.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

well....i may or may not have known a guy once many years ago who may have caught some perch from a friends dugout on that guys farm to put in his own dugout on his farm. it may or may not have been that simple. ok, really, thats what happened. he wanted to be able to catch some fish at his own house so he caught some from a pond and put em in a 5 gallon pail and drove them home. did that half a dozen times and they took off. they survived the first winter and seemed to reproduce. that was 20 years ago and i have no idea what has happened there since. he sold it and moved to bc and i havent seen him in years and dont know who lives there now.

I know the place ishootbambi! In fact, I ended up buying it a few years back and there are so many perch in the dugout now that I can walk across it and not even get my feet wet! There's allot of 5+ pounders in there now but when you open them up do you know hat I find inside them? Bullsh*t, just like the rest of my story.

[Vega21]

Love catching trout hate eatig trout...dont mind catching perch love eating them...I will gladly take all the perch out of the Morinville res. for you fine folks. My friends and I are gonna do a drive by when the weather gets good and we will take out as much perch as we can