300 WSM or 30-06 WSM?

[Mike_W]

Should have the 300 WSM been called the 30-06 WSM?

Everyone loves the fact that the 270 WSM has improved ballistics over the 270 Win, but a common comment on the 300 WSM is don't waste your time the ballistics are not any better than the 300 Win Mag.
Now if the 30-06 and the 270 Win are essentially the same shell just necked down should have the 300 WSM been marketed as a 30-06 WSM seeing as the 270 WSM is the same shell as the 300 WSM just necked down, also considering it is a beltless cartridge as is the 30-06.

Not that there is any point to this post just a thought to BS about. I know everything comes down to marketing and hype. I personally like the short mags just some food for thought.

Mike.

[Andrzej]

Short magnums are beltless but Fatter then 30-06.
Their head stump is like belted magnum thus short magnum name. The only magnum that need belt are 300H&H and 375 H&H due to their steep shoulders they headspace on belt.

Any other belted magnum headspace's on shoulder..even if they have belt.

So 30-06 WSM would not be consistent with what WSM means.

Grandpa Andrew

The numerical denotation of the WSM is for calibre so they all kind of make sense, well other than the 325 which is really an 8mm but that's another story. To call it a 30-06 WSM wouldn't really make sense as it wasn't manufactured in 1906 nor is it built on the 30-06 case. 308WSM would have made sense though. Well kind of.

[LongDraw]

The .284 WSM is the best of the bunch

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

The numerical denotation of the WSM is for calibre so they all kind of make sense, well other than the 325 which is really an 8mm but that's another story. To call it a 30-06 WSM wouldn't really make sense as it wasn't manufactured in 1906 nor is it built on the 30-06 case. 308WSM would have made sense though. Well kind of.

Man caliber designations are confusing.... Every wildcatter and manufacturer seems to want to come up with a new one....

Question... Why don't manufacturers show the same creativity in marketing new shotgun gauges? Why hasn't some marketing whiz kid convinced company brass that "We really can persuade suckers...er... I mean consumers that they absolutely do need a new 14 gauge pump and a nice light 21 gauge for the missus"?

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Man caliber designations are confusing.... Every wildcatter and manufacturer seems to want to come up with a new one....

Question... Why don't manufacturers show the same creativity in marketing new shotgun gauges? Why hasn't some marketing whiz kid convinced company brass that "We really can persuade suckers...er... I mean consumers that they absolutely do need a new 14 gauge pump and a nice light 21 gauge for the missus"?

C2 on that idea

[6.5x47 lapua]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Short magnums are beltless but Fatter then 30-06.
Their head stump is like belted magnum thus short magnum name. The only magnum that need belt are 300H&H and 375 H&H due to their steep shoulders they headspace on belt.

Any other belted magnum headspace's on shoulder..even if they have belt.

So 30-06 WSM would not be consistent with what WSM means.

Grandpa Andrew

all belted magnums are headspaced off of the belt when they are chambered.reloading practices can create shoulder headspacing.

[thundergrey]

watch for those .725 shotguns they are more and more popular!

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by custom gunworx

all belted magnums are headspaced off of the belt when they are chambered.reloading practices can create shoulder headspacing.

I thought the same thing. Had me wondering there for a while.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

I thought the same thing. Had me wondering there for a while.

Take a look at a website offering belted head space gauges - they look like a button, because all you need of course, is the belt surface for the gauge, not the shoulder!
Cat

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Short magnums are beltless but Fatter then 30-06.
Their head stump is like belted magnum thus short magnum name. The only magnum that need belt are 300H&H and 375 H&H due to their steep shoulders they headspace on belt.

Any other belted magnum headspace's on shoulder..even if they have belt.

So 30-06 WSM would not be consistent with what WSM means.

Grandpa Andrew

I understand the difference in magnums, my Comment was that I found it ineresting that the 270 wsm was marketed as such and same with the 300 wsm.
I look at them as two Individual cartridges not counterparts.
To say the 30-06 would not be consistent with what wsm means is kind of a bunch of bull as the 270 wsm is pretty much the same.

Mike

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Take a look at a website offering belted head space gauges - they look like a button, because all you need of course, is the belt surface for the gauge, not the shoulder!
Cat

When I seen the post of spacing off of the shoulder for a belt I was left wondering. I do remember seeing those gauges somewhere.

If I recall a rimless cartridge spaces off of the shoulder, belted is off of the belt and the rimmed are spaced right at the rim. Correct?

[Cowtown guy]

Sorry for the little derailment.

If they called it a 30/06 SM I do wonder if it would have sold as well or a bunch more too. With the fascination of so many folks with the old "dirty ought 6" I think it would have made a great play.

Of course the 300 WSM sounds bigger so it'll kill all those big deer in texas better. Everything is bigger in Texas you know.

At least that's what the Texans say until they see their first Alberta Whitetail.

[Mike_W]

Yeah I am sure it was designated as a 300 short magnum purley to sound bigger, thats my thought at least. I am sure quite some thought went into it.....or maybe not enough.
As sheep said the most appropiate name may have been the 308WSM but being that the 308 win is already a "short action" it may not have worked but it would justifiy the "magnum".
The nostalgia of the 30-06 is something that may or may not have been considered.

I really like the 300 WSM and think it is a great cartridge for the record.

Mike

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

To say the 30-06 would not be consistent with what wsm means is kind of a bunch of bull as the 270 wsm is pretty much the same.

Mike

Forgive any ignorance I'm displaying but it seems to me that .270 denotes caliber (the cartridge you are thinking of is .270Win). "-06" does not denote caliber. 30-06 denotes the cartridge. It's a .30 caliber bullet (or .300 if you will. Mathematically the same). IF you wanted to be consistent as you wish, you would want to call it the .270Win WSM (which it isn't).

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Forgive any ignorance I'm displaying but it seems to me that .270 denotes caliber (the cartridge you are thinking of is .270Win). "-06" does not denote caliber. 30-06 denotes the cartridge. It's a .30 caliber bullet (or .300 if you will. Mathematically the same). IF you wanted to be consistent as you wish, you would want to call it the .270Win WSM (which it isn't).

Actually it's a .308 cal bullet

Confused yet?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually it's a .308 cal bullet

Confused yet?

Apparently I am. LOL

[6.5x47 lapua]

to add confusion the 300 win mag was actually one of the original short mags.it was developed to fit in a mauser action by shortening the long 30 super(h+h) as the hh requires a long action which was not readily available at the time.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Forgive any ignorance I'm displaying but it seems to me that .270 denotes caliber (the cartridge you are thinking of is .270Win). "-06" does not denote caliber. 30-06 denotes the cartridge. It's a .30 caliber bullet (or .300 if you will. Mathematically the same). IF you wanted to be consistent as you wish, you would want to call it the .270Win WSM (which it isn't).

270 Win (Winchester) is the cartridge the actual caliber is .277".
270 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum) still uses .277" caliber just in the newly developed short magnum cases by winchester.
30-06 properly reffered to as 30-06 Spingfield denotes a .308" caliber bullet and a cartridge design that was introduced to the US military in 1906.

Hope that clears it up a little.
Mike

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by custom gunworx

all belted magnums are headspaced off of the belt when they are chambered.reloading practices can create shoulder headspacing.

I stay corrected. Thanks

As I am reloading few Belted Magnums and I am headspacing them 0.002 of the shoulder I came to wrong conclusion that they are headspaced on shoulder.

Grandpa Andrew

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

270 Win (Winchester) is the cartridge the actual caliber is .277".
270 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum) still uses .277" caliber just in the newly developed short magnum cases by winchester.
30-06 properly reffered to as 30-06 Spingfield denotes a .308" caliber bullet and a cartridge design that was introduced to the US military in 1906.

Hope that clears it up a little.
Mike

Actually if I had stopped and thought a bit I already knew all that. But the premise is still the same... There is a difference between caliber and cartridge, so 30-06 wsm doesn't make sense.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Actually if I had stopped and thought a bit I already knew all that. But the premise is still the same... There is a difference between caliber and cartridge, so 30-06 wsm doesn't make sense.

Just as much sence as the 270 WSM or 300 WSM
If you were to call it 30-06 Springfield WSM that would be a little off.

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Just as much sence as the 270 WSM or 300 WSM
If you were to call it 30-06 Springfield WSM that would be a little off.

The WSMs were never built on the parent cartridge they are typically compared to so really all the numbers denote is calibre. The .30-06 has no more relevance to the the WSM than does the 300WM. For a WSM to have the 06 denotation, it would have had to have some connection to the 06 other than the same size hole in the barrel. The numbers simply denote calibre. It's consumers that make the connection to the other cartridges. All the WSMs are is short magnums...some are ballistically similar to other cartridges with a similar numerical denotation and others aren't.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

The WSMs were never built on the parent cartridge they are typically compared to so really all the numbers denote is calibre. The .30-06 has no more relevance to the the WSM than does the 300WM. For a WSM to have the 06 denotation, it would have had to have some connection to the 06 other than the same size hole in the barrel. The numbers simply denote calibre. It's consumers that make the connection to the other cartridges. All the WSMs are is short magnums...some are ballistically similar to other cartridges with a similar numerical denotation and others aren't.

Exactly...well said!! ....you should be a writer or something with the way you put thoughts on paper

I was only inquiring as to what the perception would be if it was labeled differently. Would people be more impressed by the ballistics of the 300 WSM if it wasnt as closely compared to the already magnum 300 Win Mag.
The 270 WSM is closely compared to the non magnum 270 Win and people seem to put it on a better ballistic petestal.


Mike

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Exactly...well said!! ....you should be a writer or something the way you put thoughts on paper

I was only inquiring as to what the perception would be if it was labeled differently. Would people be more impressed by the ballistics of the 300 WSM if it wasnt as closely compared to the already magnum 300 Win Mag.
The 270 WSM is closely compared to the non magnum 270 Win and people seem to put it on a better ballistic petestal.


Mike

Ya but there was no other 270 Magnum that most shooters are intimately familiar with the balistics of for people to compare it to. I can't really see it making any difference but I could be wrong. I think putting word magnum after it was all that was required to get people excited. Everyone knows they are way better than any of the long action magnums anyhow

[boomstick]

belted magnum definition--- the size of belt i,m wearin these days lol . if ya can,t kill it with a 30-06, its too big to drag to the truck. ok all kidin aside when these short mags came out the only one that i think made a difference was the 270, all the others seemed to close to the origanal . if i was to buy into the magnumitise it would be the 270 or a weatherby mag

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

When I seen the post of spacing off of the shoulder for a belt I was left wondering. I do remember seeing those gauges somewhere.

If I recall a rimless cartridge spaces off of the shoulder, belted is off of the belt and the rimmed are spaced right at the rim. Correct?

Yup, that is where the factory cartridges are head spaced.
Cat